AIBU to comment on DH's parenting

[tempnamechange98765]

Bit of background. We have two DCs aged 4 and 16 months. We've all been at home since lockdown began (we're in Wales so restrictions haven't been eased as much as in England), DH working full time and me part time. Monday's and Fridays are my days off. Neither DC has been back to any childcare setting yet, so it's been intense, but no where near as bad as I would've pictured if someone told me about this scenario a year ago

DH didn't have the best example of parenting growing up, his dad is a bit of a waste of space and never showed much interest, wasn't very tolerant of children. His DM is quite traditional and adores our DCs but I think there was a fair bit of her bad mouthing FIL to the DCs, arguments and playing favourites with her own daughter. Nevertheless DH has happy memories of his childhood and we have a good relationship with MIL who has seen the DC a fair few times in lockdown for garden visits/walks.

DS age 4 is lovely. In lockdown he's been quite intense and needs an awful lot of input from us, is needy etc, but perfectly manageable compared with a lot of children I hear about. Bad behaviour is usually addressed effectively with either reward charts or consequences eg loss of tablet time.

DH is constantly on at DS, about small things which I think should just be ignored/not made a big deal out of. I'm impatient and won't tolerate things like throwing toys (toys get removed for a set time), nastiness to baby DC, so IMO I'm not letting too much go. Examples of the small things DH will pick at are:

• sitting at the table properly/spilling food. DS tends to sit cross legged or with his knees up, is clumsy and spills a bit of milk from his cereal on his pjs. He doesn't like wet clothes so sometimes will make a fuss. I ignore this, I might suggest he won't spill if he sits properly with his legs under the table, but I don't push it. DH will nag about the spilling, force DS to sit properly, DS ends up getting cross and shouting at DH, DH then gets cross...etc etc. Tiny things like this escalate a lot.
• messing round when he's meant to be getting dressed, deliberately putting things on backwards
• making "too much" noise when baby DS is napping. The noise is just normal kids' noise, baby isn't a great napper so I always try and keep noise to a minimum any way, but the things DH will pick at is eg closing the doors too loudly, dropping toys on the hard floor etc
• general irritating behaviour/pestering. Pulling on DH's clothes, getting his food covered hands on DH's clothes, touching food when we're trying to prepare it for lunch etc

This list is just an example, but the reason it bothers me so much is because it always escalates. DH always comes across as impatient/angry when addressing these types of issues. I can see that DS probably feels micromanaged, so he gets angry, which in turn makes DH more angry, it often ends up in DS in tears.

I suggested the book How to talk...as I read it when I found DS' behaviour really challenging at the start of the year, and I found it really helpful in still addressing some behaviours but in a different way that doesn't escalate into a row/tears. DH said he would read it too but he downloaded it on his kindle about 6 months ago and hasn't got very far.

Sorry, this is so long but if you've stuck with me, the AIBU is that I'm at the point now where I'm fed up and will call DH on the behaviour. So this morning the cereal/milk spilling incident happened (we're talking drips of milk spilled, not a bowl's worth) and when DS inevitably got stroppy with DH for making him sit properly and pushing his chair under the table, and DH responded with "don't you dare shout at me..." I told him he should've just ignored it, who cares that he spills a bit of milk. DH then has a go at me for micro managing him, but I only call him out when I see him micro managing DS. This is all in front of DS by the way, I try so hard not to argue in front of him but in lockdown he is almost always there. The only time he's not is bedtime, so I do tend to call things out when I see them.

DS' mood is often affected for the rest of the day then, if there's been shouting from DH and him crying. It's generally me who then has to handle him as I'm working PT. Plus, I don't really want him to be an unhappy child who's constantly picked at.

So AIBU? Should I just bite my tongue, walk away?

I'm really interested to hear about what others do when it comes to co-parenting.

@argueifnecessary in my OP I said I don't tolerate eg throwing toys? DS threw a toy the other day in a tantrum, I removed it. It was unusual, and an occurrence I'd say happens

I'm honestly amazed. In my NCT group, there is a little boy the same age as DS who square punched his mum in the face yesterday. All I see in the parenting threads on here is tales of children who trash rooms, tantrum regularly. This kind of behaviour I find shocking, but not silliness. Yes it's naughty and I've often thought my DS is being malicious, but then from what I read on here, apparently at 4 he isn't capable of being malicious.

For information he's 4 and a half pretty much exactly.

In terms of screen time it's absolutely crept up. He didn't have a tablet until lockdown, he now has one which he gets 10 minutes on for every "listening" sticker he has. So some days none, some days maybe 30 minutes. He also has the TV on before breakfast now which before lockdown never happened.

We go out once a day without fail, walking or scooter/bike. On weekends we aim for twice if the weather allows it, but in the week it can be tricky. Playgrounds aren't open.

As I've said DH and I are both working from him, him full time and me 3 days, in the middle of a pandemic. DS has had his whole word swept from under him, he's gone from being at pre school/nursery with his friends every day, seeing his grandparents, to being at home with just us, working, so it's not like we have bags of time for him day to day. Comment all you want on my parenting but my DS, like all kids, is not having an easy time at the minute. He does like Lego, he loves stories, but we don't have endless time to sit with him to do all these things. He's also a bit fed up of everything at home, after 15 weeks of lockdown.

@tempnamechange98765

Well I’ve never read a longer list of excuses.

Carry on feeling like you are the superior mother, but like others have said, you’re in for a shock.

At 4.5 that is nearly required school age. The children in my school at 5 would certainly be picked up on the things that you simply can’t be bothered to do

You seem to think everyone thinks your son's behaviour is malicious or shocking. I don't think anyone does, there's no need to be insulted or defensive on his behalf. We just don't all agree that because behaviour isn't shocking or malicious, it doesn't need addressing. He still needs to learn these things.

I have said in previous posts, he is well behaved at pre school and nursery. I know I'm not the only one with a child who behaves better for teachers/other parents than themselves.

I have a just turned 6yo, a just turned 4yo and a 22mo. All of these behaviours you describe I will 100% pull them up on. Not in a bad way but a reminder that I expect them to behave according to the situation. Eg sitting up to the table nicely, getting dressed independently when asked and not messing around (obviously not the toddler just yet), they certainly wouldn't rub dirty hands on things or touch others food unless it's offered. These are, simply put, good manners and they need to be taught. Not doing so is lazy parenting quite frankly...I know you say you don't have the energy to instill some of these but you ought to summon it up from somewhere otherwise you're only going to have a bigger battle on your hands when your kids get older. Especially as the little one will do exactly the same as the older sibling.
I don't think your husband should get wound up and shout but equally you're just as bad for undermining him. Find a middle ground. You shouldn't let these behaviours go on for an easy life but on the flip side your husband must talk and not shout. Poor kid is probably getting so many mixed messages and also is probably aware that mummy will tell daddy off even if whatever he is doing is a bit naughty/wrong. If your son is deliberately not listening after fair warning then being told off is acceptable. Equally if your son is doing it to get a reaction (you call him a wind up merchant) and you know it then I'd tell him off straight away. He is more than old enough to know the right and wrong choices as the age of 4.

@tempnamechange98765

Your child is probably better behaved at nursery because they have discipline.

*I just don't have the energy or the time for such a battle over that kind of thing which really doesn't matter (to me)
Unfortunately, time and energy is what's required. Short term pain for long term gain.

OP,
You are dealing with a lot at the moment and juggling, and it is hard.

Unfortunately all those behaviours are not ones that I would have tolerated, and would have gently but firmly made that clear.

Your son then being additionally difficult for the rest of the day because he has been corrected earlier, is absolutely not acceptable and he needs to be firmly told that moodiness and petulance will not be tolerated.

Your husband and yourself obviously want the best for your children, in the best environment you can create.

Ye need to come together and figure it out, without ego, without anger, and decide how you will both get on the same page going forward.

I NEVER correct my husband in front of the children, and he knows better than to do it to me.

I have pulled him aside and asked what the heck he is thinking of etc...but in front of the children we are united.

This is so important for them to see, because as they get older they will try the "divide and conquer" tactics.

This parenting lark is not easy, it takes work. It can also be very stressful.

However the sooner ye agree a strategy the sooner ye will be in control, and ye will establish boundaries that will result in everyone knowing where they stand.

Wishing you well.

@tempnamechange98765

I have said in previous posts, he is well behaved at pre school and nursery. I know I'm not the only one with a child who behaves better for teachers/other parents than themselves.

I think you actually called you son a 'wind up merchant' in a previous comment with the behaviour only being targeted at his dad. This shows what he is doing is deliberate and therefore has control over it. The fact he can behave at preschool further confirms he has control over what he does. That means the 'little' things he is doing at home are not because he's too young to know better, they are deliberate actions.

Reading the OP's post I wouldn't find any of those behaviours annoying but I would find the other parents inability to manage the behaviours without escalating everything to a row really annoying.

Reading other peoples posts, fair enough, many people would have problems with it.
But the bigger issue is not that your DH wants him to do certain things, but more that the methods he is using aren't working and he is escalating things and creating unnecessary rows and drama.

Maybe you just need to be to voice reiterating calmly, "feet down please"

I’m with you OP. Your ds sounds lovely and very normal. Probably when your dc are in bed have a chat with your dh and agree how to handle ds’s behaviour.
It’s more about consistency of response from you both.

I’m a grandmother now and I can honestly say I never look back and think I was too soft with my dc but I do sometimes think I was too hard.

My brother was like this with his small son (but not his daughter who he adored). He was far too hard on my nephew, with the result that said nephew now grown up is a really unhappy man and is totally estranged from his family. Just saying ....

I just don't have the energy or the time for such a battle over that kind of thing

You have to make finding time and energy a priority. For your ds's sake. It's your job as a parent to teach him and once he understands everything will be so much easier.

This is why nursery and reception at school are called Foundation stage. They are laying down solid foundations upon which to build education.

The same can be applied to behaviour. Get those standards sorted, explain them, enforce them in a kind, gentle but consistent way, no matter how tired you are and you will be giving your child the greatest gift. Do it for him, it will pay off in all sorts of ways as he grows up and ventures out into the world more.

Give him the foundations that he needs.

Letting your child get away with being rude now because you simply can’t be arsed to discipline him is going to cause you serious problems in the long term. If you’re not going to bring him up properly, at least let his dad get on with it, like it seems like he’s trying to do

It's generally me who then has to handle him as I'm working PT.

This jumped out at me. It sounds like to an extent DH can wind up DS and then leave the parenting to you as he can hide in another room working?

I think you are both partly right.

I agree with you that it's important to prioritise, to let some things go and focus on the bigger picture. But, I agree with your husband that those things you have listed are something you'd expect from a younger child, at 4 he is old enough to stop doing these.

I agree with you that shouting and getting frustrated is absolutely the worst way to go about it. But, I agree with your husband that totally letting things slide isn't good either.

My suggestion would be to compromise, have a long talk with DH and figure out a unified approach going forward. You could agree with him that these behaviours should be addressed, but suggest some different strategies for doing so. Also, agree to tackle one thing at a time. Which one of these is most annoying? Start there.

Agree with your DH here as well I'm afraid

@tempnamechange98765

So when all of you say "I would not tolerate that" what exactly do you do? What consequences could possibly be used for silly little behaviours?

I have accepted any of those behaviours from my two dcs. I also have had no need to punish or give consequences for the behaviours you describe. I’ve just told them again and again to sit properly etc.... I’ve also used counting to 3. Both of them knew that by the time I had reached 3, they need to be sat properly or I would get up, lift them from the chair and sit them down again properly..

Re noise when baby ds is sleeping. Ds1 was 18 months when ds2 was born, he learnt not to make noise when his Dbro was sleeping (and we were also staying in the conservatory rather than next door etc...). It was that or ds2 wasn’t sleeping and was being a nightmare to deal with. There was no discussion on what was the most i portant between ds1 having to make an effort for an hour or so. Or me (and them!) loosing time due to lack of sleep.

Sorry it should be:
I have NOT accepted any of those behaviours from my two dcs!!

So when all of you say "I would not tolerate that" what exactly do you do? What consequences could possibly be used for silly little behaviours?

Tell him to sit in his chair properly like what your DH did.........

@HyacynthBucket

My brother was like this with his small son (but not his daughter who he adored). He was far too hard on my nephew, with the result that said nephew now grown up is a really unhappy man and is totally estranged from his family. Just saying ....

The thing is you can be strict AND loving. You can set clear boundaries AND has a great Relationship with your dcs.

None of that is exclusive.

But the way you go on parenting them, setting those boundaries will be the determining factor. This starts, imo, by recognising that there are other ways to parent a child other than punishment and rewards/shouting etc...
My experience is that stating what you want CLEARLY and expecting the child to behave is often plenty. I genuinely can’t remember ever punishing them as such. The most I have done is to ask them to go and calm down in their bedroom (so not time out as in no rule about when they should go out).
They are teens now. Polite and not a bother at all.

@AryaStarkWolf

So when all of you say "I would not tolerate that" what exactly do you do? What consequences could possibly be used for silly little behaviours?

Tell him to sit in his chair properly like what your DH did.........

YY. Not all behaviours need a consequences or a punishment.

Sorry, I'm also in agreement with your DH here about the behaviours you've outlined.

I can understand this to dine extent OP. What I've realised much later in life is that what upset me was not dh's expectations, but the way he dealt with them. He is also impatient and 'naggy' as opposed to just asking nicely. I think you need to compromise by addressing that his expectations are ok and you're on the same page but that he needs to approach it better. This way he feels listened to and you get the most important point across which is that naggy, angry parenting will escalate and lead to issues. You also need to support your DH in that if Ds does not follow through on a nice request, what happens next? Did can't get used to ruling the roost in everything he doesn't fancy doing. The examples of bad behaviour you have are really quite basic eg for 2-3 year olds and not for 4yos. I think you can have higher expectations.

As a cminder . All children are asked to sit properly at the table 2 year old was today and quite capable of doing so .

I hate spilt milk. It’s a pet hate of mine . I cope with spilt water far better. So yes milk drinks I do pick up on. I don’t shout at them though .

You don’t have to punish them - everything isn’t punishment or reward . If you must - you are sitting at the table nicely is enough.

If he does bang the doors - remind him quiet closing before shutting the door - quilter activities during nap time .

But ultimately the worst thing is undermining his parenting .

I think the two of you need to sit down ( when Ds is not there) and agree how to handle certain situations ) your Dd is getting mixed messages so he will rebel especially if dad is told off for correcting him.