To be cross that DD didn’t tell me her boyfriend was trans?

[WearyandBleary]

DD who is 16 has just had a horrible breakup with her boyfriend of 2 years. In the course of this crying etc she told me he was trans I e born a girl.

Now I don’t mind whatever but I’m so embarrassed that I had loads of heart to hearts with her about sex and contraception and she never said a thing!!! I feel like an idiot. She can’t understand why it matters. (?!?)

AIBU to be cross? I thought we had a good relationship and she was always honest with me. I feel like a chump!

Protected characteristics aren't mutually exclusive of each other - you can be both black and gay, or elderly, disabled and trans. You could even be trans and be discriminated against on the basis of your sex

Indeed but that’s my point. The law wouldn’t mention sex and gender reassignment if they were the same thing. Teachadopt tells us they can be the same thing and by changing gender we change sex and people with a gender change must be accepted as the sex they want to be seen as for all purposes in law. That is simply not the case. It’s a complete misrepresentation of the law. From an employment lawyer no less.

They would be relevant as two separate things where a trans man was denied a job for being trans and also for being pregnant. One would be discrimination on the grounds of gender reassignment. The other on the grounds of sex. But they are two quite distinct characteristics and that’s why they are listed separately.

Stonewall want to get rid of the sex characteristic as a distinct protection. Ask yourself why anyone would want to do that.

Fascinating thread, thank you.

For those who say FWR is an echo chamber and doesn't want to debate. I don't agree. It encourages robust debate. Make your case. Give a good argument but don't necessarily expect to agree on all points. The FWR board by definition will centre women, defined biologically. Just as any other group would centre their priority. If an argument would disadvantage women, why would FWR agree with it?

As regards the op. It's lovely your daughter had a loving relationship for 2 years. However she is a child and the thought of secrecy around anything sexual is uncomfortable. Its safeguarding.

I totally get that trans people face discrimination. Choosing to hide facts and pretend they don't exist is imho dangerous and not a route to equality and acceptance.

I would date a post op trans woman though if she “passed” as a woman. I don’t see how that would make me any less a lesbian.

Good point. A post op transwoman would not have a penis.

This is what I'm talking about. If you are a lesbian, would you date a person with a penis and still say you are a lesbian.

Likewise, if my dh transitioned to be a transwoman, would that me make a lesbian, even if he retained his penis?

If we get to chose our own sexuality, could he be a lesbian and I be a straight woman in a relationship with a lesbian with a penis?

You say you would date a post op trans woman if she "passed" as a woman- what does this mean ?Do you mean you would date her if she was feminine enough in appearance?Surely if a person was born male, they would just be 'modifying' parts their bodies to conform to the female form ie breasts and the removal of male genitalia, but would still be male. Would you date a trans woman who appeared feminine but still had a penis, or would you this be too male presenting?

I mean, literally if they pass as a woman, as in I look at them and they appear female to me, like I said, I wouldn’t date anyone with a penis, and I would only date a post op trans woman. To me breasts are still breasts even if they’re fake, so I don’t see how a vagina would be that different, although I don’t have much knowledge about surgically made genitals, so maybe they would and it would be a turn off. However, I don’t see why dating a post op trans woman who appears female (the same way OP’s daughter’s ex boyfriend passes as male) would make me any less of a lesbian? I personally think dating a post op trans man is more indicative that someone may be attracted to men than dating a trans woman.

@Fairenuff For me personally, I could never date anyone with a penis, I’m a lesbian, so I am not attracted to male bodies or penises in anyway, a trans woman would have to be post op and appear female for me to be attracted to them. It’s not just about genetics for me, I could never date a trans man despite them being a biological woman, because they would look and presumably behave and dress like a man, and I’m not attracted to men in anyway shape or form. I also, don’t believe in “he” lesbians or male bodied biological men claiming they’re lesbians. I can’t trick myself into seeing a penis and male body as female, it doesn’t work like that for me.

''I also, don’t believe in “he” lesbians or male bodied biological men claiming they’re lesbians. I can’t trick myself into seeing a penis and male body as female, it doesn’t work like that for me.'

I feel the same Elsiebear. It feels like gaslighting.

As much as I want to help and support transwomen I cannot make myself believe something which I know to be untrue. I just can't, I've tried.

I think this is why views are so polarised.

Thats very open of you elsie

To talk about it i mean

I absolutely see your point and i agree with fairenuff

It feels like gaslighting because it is.
Your sexual preferences are people's own business and to be dictating that you have to be attracted to other bodies is appalling.

Exactly Mrskeats. However so called 'genital preference' is deemed transphobic. Nobody gets to dictate to me what i find sexually attractive. Nor should that happen to anybody.

I know I have a certain type that I find attractive. I don't think that's unusual. It's a combination of physical and character traits. Doesn't make those who I don't find attractive less valid.

I suppose it boils down to who you see as a woman. I personally, which I know to many is transphobic, only see trans women who take hormones and have had surgery as women, they’re not biological women, but I do view them as women (other disagree, but this my personal view) to me if you look like a woman, act like a woman, have breasts and a vagina then my brain says “woman” and I may be attracted to them regardless of their genetics. The opposite is true for trans men, so if they have a penis, whether it’s surgical or natural, then that immediately screams “man” to me. Likewise if they look and behave like a man then my brain is saying “man” even though they may be a biological woman.

I don’t think it’s reasonable to call people transphobic because they are not attracted to male bodies or people who look like men, that’s what being a lesbian is. I can’t control what I’m attracted to and it defies logic to expect a lesbian to view a male body as female because you told them it was. I’ve tried to understand the thinking behind that, but it seems at best delusional and at worse coercive and rapey.