Is this Midwife out of line?

[SistineScreamer]

Curious as to what others would think. My daughter just had her first DC yesterday. She had an elective section and is still in hospital. My daughter is young, she’s 24, Not married (and has no intention to) but been with her DP since they were 16. She’s had some MH issues, stemmed from ex husband of mine. This is all noted in her file and is a manageable, she’s had to come off her medication during the pregnancy because of risks to the baby but she was more than willing to do this. She’s in a private room and not on a ward. All this information is important as I assume this is why she was treated the way she was.

She rang me 30 minutes ago in tears. Telling me one of the midwives assigned to her has been horrible to her. We’ll call her Midwife A.

All this is what she says happened - First, DD had baby in a onsie and bib, midwife A came in and commented that the bib was too big for baby, took baby out of DD’s arms and removed the bib. Even if the bib was too big why completely undermine her like that? Next, DD brought wipes for her face, body etc they were baby brand water wipes as her skin is overly sensitive to anything else. Midwife proceeded to lecture DD that these were wrong and cotton buds must be used with water instead, proceeded to bin wipes then leave the room.

Half an hour later Midwife A came back in to ask DD about her feeding choices. DD was sexually assaulted and does not feel comfortable breastfeeding, her choice. Midwife proceeded to give her the breast is best talk, asking why she wouldn’t consider breastfeeding, basically making her feel like shit for picking formula. DD mentioned she’d purchased a perfect prep machine for the formula (you know the ones that give the perfect shot of hot water at night so you don’t have to faff about with the kettle?) this woman nodded, left the room and came back 15 minutes later with a print out of the perfect prep machine....asking DD to confirm if this was what she was talking about. Nodding and tutting. What the fuck? Even if she wanted to know what DD was talking about, why print it out and bring it to her? Why not look it up herself?

Next issue came with the drip that was in DD’s hand, it was ripping the skin, physically pulling up the skin. She asked Midwife A if she could take it out or change it, to be told no nothing could be done. She’d just have to suck it up. An hour after she was told this another midwife came in, Midwife B, she begged midwife B to take it out and showed her what it was doing to her hand. Midwife B promptly took it out stating that there was no problem. Midwife A came back for her checks, asked DD what happened to the drop. DD explained that midwife B took it out, midwife A mumbled something about how that couldn’t be right and she’d have to check that ‘story’ right away.

DD is still vulnerable after birth, can’t move yet because of the catheter and has to be changed by this woman who she feels uncomfortable with and intimidated by. This woman has to handle her naked, change her sheets and I feel from what she’s saying it’s making her MH worse. She says she feels like Midwife A is talking about her with the other midwife (not B) on duty who she seems friendly with, shared looks, little smirks, off comments.

The looks and such could be DD’s dislike for this midwife raring up. But the rest, is this normal! I feel like she’s over stepped the mark and made my child feel low because of her age and choices. Should we ignore this?

This post makes me realise why no one wants to train as a midwife.

I recently had a chat with a midwife who said they were struggling with massive numbers of applications because everyone thought it would be all eyebrows and coffee (aka one born).

It never even crossed my mind to complain. It's a cock-up, not a conspiracy, 95% of the time.

Jeez - the bar is very very low, isn't it? Everyone, regardless of whether they pay at point of use or not, deserves to have the best treatment in a hospital and not midwives barking in a sergeant-major style at them.

There needs to be a lot more work done on getting women's health taken seriously enough. A lot more.

This is not normal and is not right. Definitely complain and keep a record of everything.

@Brefugee

It never even crossed my mind to complain. It's a cock-up, not a conspiracy, 95% of the time.

Jeez - the bar is very very low, isn't it? Everyone, regardless of whether they pay at point of use or not, deserves to have the best treatment in a hospital and not midwives barking in a sergeant-major style at them.

There needs to be a lot more work done on getting women's health taken seriously enough. A lot more.

This in spades.

It amazes me how shit women are treated on postnatal wards.

I’ve had two sections and I’ve been treated terribly both times. It’s the only time I’ve been in hospital.

When my dad had a few operations last year, it was such a stark contrast to see how he was treated on the ward post op.

He didn’t have to cry and beg for pain medication, wasn’t expected to be on his feet with just paracetamol a few hours after surgery, he was treated with compassion. My eyes were truly opened.

Unfortunately there are bad eggs in all professions. I had great midwives during both my pregnancies and for delivery and aftercare of my second. BUT with my first delivery I was referred to as a “little girl” (I looked younger than my 29 years), told that my DH couldn’t possibly be DDs father because she has red hair (she is 100% his and red hair runs in both our families), and told that I couldn’t breast feed my child (once out of their “care” I managed for over a year). I was so low after a traumatic delivery and not being allowed to properly try to feed and care for her as well as the accusations about DH being her dad that I almost started believing them. Fortunately a change of shift brought a midwife that I knew vaguely from “real life” and she helped me to “fight back”

I think OPs DD and GC are very lucky to have her sticking up for them and I hope they are home and able to settle into family life very soon.

@0963158b

This post makes me realise why no one wants to train as a midwife.

I recently had a chat with a midwife who said they were struggling with massive numbers of applications because everyone thought it would be all eyebrows and coffee (aka one born).

This is true, midwifery is one of the most competitive courses to get onto, up there with dentistry and veterinary science. However a lot do drop out within the 1st year as, like you say, they don't know the realities if modern midwifery and they have their eyes well and truly opened to the pressures and responsibilities. We don't cuddle babies all day. To anyone who has had a bad experience, please don't feel you have to accept it. You are supposed to be the centre of our care and we should facilitate care around your needs, not the other way around. It makes me really upset to hear so many women have had a horrible time.

It's a difficult situation and being alone in a room with a not very friendly midwife is not very pleasant. Perhaps she should stress that she doesn't want to be alone with her, it would certainly give her food for thought.
I don't really object to any of the advice she's given your daughter but appreciate it's all about how the advice is given.
I think these sort of encounters are damaging and would recommend, if your daughter's able, for her to challenge at the time. She may be treated differently if she gains these skills and it's maybe something she needs to work on.
Your daughter's vulnerable and perhaps it would be good if you could offer her support with health visitor visits etc until she gains confidence.

“t's a difficult situation and being alone in a room with a not very friendly midwife is not very pleasant. Perhaps she should stress that she doesn't want to be alone with her, it would certainly give her food for thought. “

Her partner was there with her.

@isabellerossignol Thanks for completely twisting my words to fit your own narrative! 👍🏻 Cheers

What narrative is that then?

[quote PrayingandHoping]@isabellerossignol the advise is still not to use boiling hot water. It's to boil the kettle, allow to cool for around half an hour and use.

The PP hot shot is not boiling hot water either. It's around 80 degrees when it hits the powder when I tested my machine. [/quote]
Ah, makes sense. A previous poster had said the water was boiling and I thought that meant that that was the current advice.

Those machines sound great to me.

Definitely complain! I had a midwife be really nasty after I had ds2. I had had some bad bleeding after the birth and lots of stitches. I also went into shock and kept fainting. When I was starting to feel better and the fainting stopped, this midwife came in to help move me to the ward (I was wheeled along on the bed)
She looked at the blood on the floor, tossed a big pad thing (think it was a bed pad) at DH and said "Dad can clean that up"
It was so humiliating. I hope your dd is ok

The point of complaining isn't so much to punish anyone but to see if things can be put right, training, improvements in communication, a back up system etc. Nothing will change if no one complains.

Can her partner not speak up and help her in this situation.I didn't realize they were in the room but would expect them to be able to advocate for your daughter.

*The point of complaining isn't so much to punish anyone but to see if things can be put right, training, improvements in communication, a back up system"

Yes. It's feedback. That nurse is in dire need of feedback.

She looked at the blood on the floor, tossed a big pad thing (think it was a bed pad) at DH and said "Dad can clean that up"

Did he do it? I would have laughed right in her face.

I've never had a good experience with MW. Very condescending, passive aggressive, rude, just very cold basically.

It's why DHs ex makes such a good one

pressuring me to give her 3 good reasons that I wouldn't do it

Fuck that. I didn't and never have wanted to breastfeed either. My answer would have been

1. Because I said so.
2. Because I said so.
3. Because I said so.

I had a midwife just like that when DS was born. I was a thirty something married lady with no issues at all - she was horrendous. The others weren't great either, tbh. I found that they all had a different way that they wanted me to feed etc and that they were each very insistent that their way was the best. I hated being in hospital and discharged myself as fast as I could. Sorry your DD is having a bad time - but congrats on DGC

Did he do it? I would have laughed right in her face.

The other (nice) midwife stepped in and said 'no no we'll do that '

I feel sorry for your daughter. Why was she still catherterised? She should also have been encouraged to get up and walk asap.sorry
She's starting her meds back up in hospital, did they check they were even suitable to take while breast feeding? Not that it matters either way as it's her choice! Bottle fed all of mine and it was never continuously rammed down my throat or questioned as I was on meds that aren't suitable for breast feeding. One midwife even said 'At least you know how much baby is drinking so don't worry about it'

Just wanted to say well done OP in standing up for and by your daughter.

Some people seem to think if you’ve got MH problems it gives them the right to make decisions for you as you’re deemed incapable of dealing with life in general or making a decision for yourself. Makes me so angry. And some of the responses on here...

Hope your DD is discharged soon and without fuss and you can all get on with enjoying family time with the baby

@SDTGisanevilwolefgenius you’re absolutely right of course.

However in my recent experience (I say recent I mean last 15 years or so) and that of former colleagues working in the nhs still, good quality handovers have been massively lowered in priority, mainly due to administrators with zero clinical experience not understanding and/or acknowledging their importance.

@Tootletum -

1 treating a patient with a poor attitude, harassing them and being aggressive and dismissive and bullying towards them is a conscious CHOICE not a cock up! I would never have dreamed of treating even the most cantankerous and awkward of patients anything close to how you or the ops dd were treated!

2 cock ups are just as if not more valid a reason to make a complaint. If it’s a genuine mistake the people and organisations involved need to know in order to prevent the mistake recurring either with that patient OR another. Also the result matters just as much if not more so than the intent. Such treatment puts patient at risk - mentally and physically!

There needs to be a lot more work done on getting women's health taken seriously enough. A lot more.

Totally agree, unfortunately I think it will take decades if not centuries to see significant change because the misogyny within healthcare is so entrenched. It goes right back to the fact that excepting conditions of the reproductive system almost all training, education, research, textbooks etc are based on the premise of a “typical” patient being a man with a man’s body! Even with conditions that present more commonly in women.

@billiejoearmstrong you may be interested in reading my thread here:

https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/amiibeingunreasonable/3402449-Aibu-to-ask-you-to-tell-me-your-experiences-of-being-dismissed-by-medics-as-a-sick-woman-I-promise-to-listen

I’ve not reread the thread but iirc there was an example of a poster who she and her dh both presented to the same dr with the same condition and received completely different treatment. Again iirc he was prescribed pain relief and she was basically expected to just suck it up!

@steamboatwilly123 I “predate” ‘one born’ but certainly when I did my nurse training I considered going into midwifery as I have a personal interest in that area, though more gynaecology to be fair, and the midwives I spoke with on my gynae/obs rotation at that time (early 90’s) were at pains to point out it was not ‘cuddling babies all day’ And that actually midwifery done properly focussed on the mother! That anyone wanting to care for infants should really go into paediatric/neonatal care which indeed 2 of my cohort did. That wasn’t my focus but I ultimately didn’t go into midwifery as I wasn’t sure I would cope with the more distressing aspects having had (at that point only 1) mc myself and likely facing more (which did happen) plus I felt too young at that stage oddly enough I felt I wanted more life experience before dealing with the more challenging aspects of that. I know that sounds odd considering I was training to be a nurse! Hard to explain I’m sure you get it.

That nurse is in dire need of feedback. 😂yes!

Some people seem to think if you’ve got MH problems it gives them the right to make decisions for you as you’re deemed incapable of dealing with life in general or making a decision for yourself. FAR too many people think like that!

I hold 2 degrees and various other academic qualifications, I’ve worked in various professional roles, caring for others included and yet I’ve even experienced hcps taking to me VERY carefully and SLOWLY in words of one syllable “explaining” medical things to me as if I am literally an idiot! One one occasion in particular I was far more familiar with the medication being prescribed (for a gynae condition) than they were and had read and understood the research AND SUGGESTED IT AS AN OPTION FOR ME only for them to basically try and tell me how the female reproductive system and menstrual cycle worked! Ffs! So insulting!!!

How is your daughter OP? Are you both home yet? Hope all is ok

I suggest she writes to the Chief Executive of the unit saying that under no circumstances does she wish to have contact with this midwife again; nor does she wish the midwife to have access to her case notes.
Sometimes those in a vulnerable position do not wish to make a detailed complaint; this method works in such cases.
Jean Robinson (Mrs)

Considering that in one of your other posts you mock someone for not being able to afford a 5 pound toy for their child... I now struggle to believe this is real.