Is this Midwife out of line?

[SistineScreamer]

Curious as to what others would think. My daughter just had her first DC yesterday. She had an elective section and is still in hospital. My daughter is young, she’s 24, Not married (and has no intention to) but been with her DP since they were 16. She’s had some MH issues, stemmed from ex husband of mine. This is all noted in her file and is a manageable, she’s had to come off her medication during the pregnancy because of risks to the baby but she was more than willing to do this. She’s in a private room and not on a ward. All this information is important as I assume this is why she was treated the way she was.

She rang me 30 minutes ago in tears. Telling me one of the midwives assigned to her has been horrible to her. We’ll call her Midwife A.

All this is what she says happened - First, DD had baby in a onsie and bib, midwife A came in and commented that the bib was too big for baby, took baby out of DD’s arms and removed the bib. Even if the bib was too big why completely undermine her like that? Next, DD brought wipes for her face, body etc they were baby brand water wipes as her skin is overly sensitive to anything else. Midwife proceeded to lecture DD that these were wrong and cotton buds must be used with water instead, proceeded to bin wipes then leave the room.

Half an hour later Midwife A came back in to ask DD about her feeding choices. DD was sexually assaulted and does not feel comfortable breastfeeding, her choice. Midwife proceeded to give her the breast is best talk, asking why she wouldn’t consider breastfeeding, basically making her feel like shit for picking formula. DD mentioned she’d purchased a perfect prep machine for the formula (you know the ones that give the perfect shot of hot water at night so you don’t have to faff about with the kettle?) this woman nodded, left the room and came back 15 minutes later with a print out of the perfect prep machine....asking DD to confirm if this was what she was talking about. Nodding and tutting. What the fuck? Even if she wanted to know what DD was talking about, why print it out and bring it to her? Why not look it up herself?

Next issue came with the drip that was in DD’s hand, it was ripping the skin, physically pulling up the skin. She asked Midwife A if she could take it out or change it, to be told no nothing could be done. She’d just have to suck it up. An hour after she was told this another midwife came in, Midwife B, she begged midwife B to take it out and showed her what it was doing to her hand. Midwife B promptly took it out stating that there was no problem. Midwife A came back for her checks, asked DD what happened to the drop. DD explained that midwife B took it out, midwife A mumbled something about how that couldn’t be right and she’d have to check that ‘story’ right away.

DD is still vulnerable after birth, can’t move yet because of the catheter and has to be changed by this woman who she feels uncomfortable with and intimidated by. This woman has to handle her naked, change her sheets and I feel from what she’s saying it’s making her MH worse. She says she feels like Midwife A is talking about her with the other midwife (not B) on duty who she seems friendly with, shared looks, little smirks, off comments.

The looks and such could be DD’s dislike for this midwife raring up. But the rest, is this normal! I feel like she’s over stepped the mark and made my child feel low because of her age and choices. Should we ignore this?

Well done for standing your ground OP and defending your daughter! Midwife A sounds like a right nasty old hag! I’d be expecting a full apology from her tbh. How many other woman has she bullied at their most vulnerable? How many woman didn’t have anyone to defend them?
My guess is she’s been getting away with this for a while, doesn’t sound like ‘having an off day’ behaviour! Luckily I had great midwifes through both of my births because I definitely wouldn’t have tolerated that!

I can easily imagine why midwivery attracts the odd rogue. It's an opportunity made in heaven for a narcissistic bully. Or a sadist.

wifery

washcloths and water are kinder on skin, kinder on the environment and very much cheaper once you have bought the cloths

Then that’s the personal choice you can make yourself but would you tell another mum her choice is wrong and throw them away because you didn’t agree? We all use different methods and different brands of baby wipes and so on but it’s not for one woman to dictate to another woman what she chooses to do.

OP, don’t know if you are still looking at these messages & I haven’t RTFT but I think you’re doing an amazing job advocating for your daughter & you have every right to complain.

If I were you, I’d just be there for your daughter now, do everything in your power to get Mum & baby home safely & soundly & then when the dust has settled, write a complaint with all the detail from this thread.

I think you / your daughter have a right to complain but both need to focus on baby for the short term.

@Billyjoearmstrong exactly

The Perfect prep stuff going round I just don't understand. I bought one before I heard about all these "concerns". I then stuck a probe into the hot shot several times and it is far hotter than the 70 degrees recommended to kill the bacteria on formula.

I clean it regularly and change the filter for genuine. I take the back off to check the pipes.... squeaky clean. It's 8 months old

It's all fake news if u ask me circulated by people who don't look after them properly.

Women have higher levels of oxytocin around the time of birth, which makes unkind or insensitive treatment liable to do more damage. Also, it has been shown that memories around birth last a very long time. Complain about this midwife! Jean Robinson (former Hon. Research Officer and President, Association for Improvements in the Maternity Services)

@ComeOnBabyPopMyBubble

washcloths and water are kinder on skin, kinder on the environment and very much cheaper once you have bought the cloths (try amazon),

No one cares what your opinion or preference is. No one has to try anything. Mothers are perfectly capable of making decisions and choosing things that work for them and their baby.

The wipes were for the mother not the baby anyways.

So glad you've said this. I had the whole 'use reusable nappies, they're so easy'. Yup working full time and washing dirty nappies was totally top of the agenda!

OP, glad your daughter is feeling better. Having a shower and the catheter out, I bet she feels like a new woman!

@MulticolourMophead thanks

Op so glad to hear she's doing so much better and that she'll soon be well away from this awful midwife

OP,

Your daughter's treatment is simply appalling.

She is so lucky to have a strong woman like you to advocate for her.

Midwives like that do enormous damage and are a blight on the health service.

At your most vulnerable you need kindness and support. Anything else is unforgivable.

I also hope you formally complain Midwife A.

Most people regret when they don't.

I found during my pregnancies the nurses to be overwhelmingly kind and patient but the couple that were not, even though they weren't involved in my care, I remember them clearly too!

@ComeOnBabyPopMyBubble

I do wish I had taken legal action, but I was so tired and medicated and trying to repair my family unit so didn't.

And this is what they rely on, otherwise the system would change. But nope, let's make hormonal,tired,often traumatised (mentally and physically) women jump through hoops and do all the work(that tends to be dismissed/lost/ignored anyways) .

That was exactly the case. Considering at one point I stood on a railway bridge and was going to throw myself off, because I felt like such a piece of shit and was delusional to the point I thought my DP, my lovely wonderful, understanding DP, was fixing to chuck me out and move a random girl I saw once at the end of our road in instead, the damage they did was ridiculous and Ive not even contemplated the third child I wanted. I'm so pleased your DD is better today @SistineScreamer, please tell her she isn't alone, MH does not make you any less of a mum, in fact I knew my DD was depressed recently because I knew the signs and was, like you, able to be there for her. She will be a wonderful mum, she has a wonderful mum she has learned from.

I am a student midwife and I came into the profession after a similar experience with my son. Ignoring the comment about how we are trained (clearly not experienced the pressurised joys of a modern midwifery degree...) I can say the majority of midwives I've worked with are wonderful, supportive and caring. But like any profession there are bad apples and in healthcare this translates into jaded people who have lost their ability to emphasise and care. This does not mean any of this is acceptable and women do not have to tolerate treatment like this. Yes we acknowledge the benefits of breastfeeding, but the choice is ultimately the womans- not my body or my baby, all I can give you is the information, it is up to you what you do and everyone I've worked with is the same. It's quite bizarre for this midwife to constantly be pushing it with your DD (none of us will recommend the perfect prep machine though, evidence shows it's not appropriate and a money spinner). I hope your complaint is taken seriously and the midwife in question is pulled up in her behaviour. Also congratulations!

@steamboatwilly123 that's nice, but others have said about their experiences and unfortunately not every midwife is accepting of a woman's choice as you. And yes, if a disproportionate amount of people have had bad experiences it isn't unreasonable to wonder whether the training has at least something to do with it.

I'm sure you wouldn't agree that the training is perfect, would you?

@steamboatwilly123 - what is the evidence regarding the perfect prep machine? Do you have a link?

@PanamaPattie imho, there are people who hate anything that makes formula feeding easier and more convenient. As I said upthread the problems come from people not using and maintaining the machines correctly.

@steamboatwilly123 get a PP out of a box and test it for yourself and you'll see that the "testing" that was done on one wasn't right. It said that the hot shot wasn't hot enough and that's just not true, it's well over 70 degrees

@PanamaPattie a lot of HCPs refer to this document (1st search result, then click on the pdf below the perfect prep machine). If you add the powder first then the water is above 70 degrees when it mixes with the powder. If you add the hotshot and then for some reason wait 2 minutes, there's a risk it won't be hot enough (but not sure why you would), which is potentially unsafe. There isn't a lot of evidence either way, arguably the lack of evidence is the issue, but simarly there isn't anything conclusive that suggests they are dangerous. The build up in the pipes on machines where people hadn't been using the correct filters was also found to be harmless. I personally find whether it's worth the money or not a personal choice, rather than one to inflict on people.

Help if I put the link I guess haha!

"Making infant milk safely — First Steps Nutrition Trust" www.firststepsnutrition.org/making-infant-milk-safely

I have a digital PP and it guides u through it... powder always goes in first.

Leaving water to cool down before adding the powder would be like boiling the kettle and leaving it for a age and using it..... same problem 🙄

@PrayingandHoping

I have a digital PP and it guides u through it... powder always goes in first.

Leaving water to cool down before adding the powder would be like boiling the kettle and leaving it for a age and using it..... same problem 🙄

You can’t blame a product of people don’t use it correctly - only it seems fine to do that in the case of PP machines.

If people can cock up using a PP, they would probably cock up anyway other way of making up formula. It seems a shame that it gets bashed so much because of people’s stupidly to be honest.

The old instructions did say to add the powder after the hotshot, but this has been revised. I think they're wonderful to be honest, and people are going to use them regardless. Rather than dismiss them and say how useless they are, wouldn't it be better for MWs to explain to women how to use it to ensure effectiveness was given (based on the research). I can see why they aren't promoting them, but honestly if an adult says I've looked into it and I would like to use one rather than boiling my kettle everytime and waiting 20 minutes; why not give guidance on how to safely use one. I know it's not allowed, but things like that really are ridiculous.

I'd complain. When I was 25 and in labour with my second DC I had an awful midwife. I still haven't forgotten - when I was 3 days into labour and clearly exhausted and upset - she asked me why I was crying. I answered I've been in labour for 3 days, I haven't slept, and I want my mum!

She asked why on earth did I want my mum? Why wasn't the baby's dad present? I explained that babies dad had left while I was pregnant.

And where's your mum? she asked. She's looking after my 2yo.

"Ahh.. so you thought you'd make the same mistake twice." were her exact words.

That pretty much broke my hormonal heart and she just tutted at me and walked off. It must have been on my notes that I had also suffered with anxiety so why on Earth she chose to treat me that way I don't know!

Later, when DS was delivered by emergency section, she told me that my boobs were weird and she wasn't convinced DS would be able to breastfeed. He managed just fine with my 'weird boobs' but I never forgot what a shit experience she made of my whole time there.

I'd complain. When I was 25 and in labour with my second DC I had an awful midwife. I still haven't forgotten - when I was 3 days into labour and clearly exhausted and upset - she asked me why I was crying. I answered I've been in labour for 3 days, I haven't slept, and I want my mum!

She asked why on earth did I want my mum? Why wasn't the baby's dad present? I explained that babies dad had left while I was pregnant.

And where's your mum? she asked. She's looking after my 2yo.

"Ahh.. so you thought you'd make the same mistake twice." were her exact words.

That pretty much broke my hormonal heart and she just tutted at me and walked off. It must have been on my notes that I had also suffered with anxiety so why on Earth she chose to treat me that way I don't know!

Later, when DS was delivered by emergency section, she told me that my boobs were weird and she wasn't convinced DS would be able to breastfeed. He managed just fine with my 'weird boobs' but I never forgot what a shit experience she made of my whole time there.

[quote PrayingandHoping]@steamboatwilly123 get a PP out of a box and test it for yourself and you'll see that the "testing" that was done on one wasn't right. It said that the hot shot wasn't hot enough and that's just not true, it's well over 70 degrees [/quote]
Fortunately to give safe care our practice is based on up to date, current evidence and guidance, not personal opinion (otherwise you would encounter many more cases of poor practice like the one in the OP). We all know in reality people use them though, but as always we can only give you the information and it's up to you what you do with it. There's certainly more research that needs to be conducted on them either way as they seem very popular.