Is this Midwife out of line?

[SistineScreamer]

Curious as to what others would think. My daughter just had her first DC yesterday. She had an elective section and is still in hospital. My daughter is young, she’s 24, Not married (and has no intention to) but been with her DP since they were 16. She’s had some MH issues, stemmed from ex husband of mine. This is all noted in her file and is a manageable, she’s had to come off her medication during the pregnancy because of risks to the baby but she was more than willing to do this. She’s in a private room and not on a ward. All this information is important as I assume this is why she was treated the way she was.

She rang me 30 minutes ago in tears. Telling me one of the midwives assigned to her has been horrible to her. We’ll call her Midwife A.

All this is what she says happened - First, DD had baby in a onsie and bib, midwife A came in and commented that the bib was too big for baby, took baby out of DD’s arms and removed the bib. Even if the bib was too big why completely undermine her like that? Next, DD brought wipes for her face, body etc they were baby brand water wipes as her skin is overly sensitive to anything else. Midwife proceeded to lecture DD that these were wrong and cotton buds must be used with water instead, proceeded to bin wipes then leave the room.

Half an hour later Midwife A came back in to ask DD about her feeding choices. DD was sexually assaulted and does not feel comfortable breastfeeding, her choice. Midwife proceeded to give her the breast is best talk, asking why she wouldn’t consider breastfeeding, basically making her feel like shit for picking formula. DD mentioned she’d purchased a perfect prep machine for the formula (you know the ones that give the perfect shot of hot water at night so you don’t have to faff about with the kettle?) this woman nodded, left the room and came back 15 minutes later with a print out of the perfect prep machine....asking DD to confirm if this was what she was talking about. Nodding and tutting. What the fuck? Even if she wanted to know what DD was talking about, why print it out and bring it to her? Why not look it up herself?

Next issue came with the drip that was in DD’s hand, it was ripping the skin, physically pulling up the skin. She asked Midwife A if she could take it out or change it, to be told no nothing could be done. She’d just have to suck it up. An hour after she was told this another midwife came in, Midwife B, she begged midwife B to take it out and showed her what it was doing to her hand. Midwife B promptly took it out stating that there was no problem. Midwife A came back for her checks, asked DD what happened to the drop. DD explained that midwife B took it out, midwife A mumbled something about how that couldn’t be right and she’d have to check that ‘story’ right away.

DD is still vulnerable after birth, can’t move yet because of the catheter and has to be changed by this woman who she feels uncomfortable with and intimidated by. This woman has to handle her naked, change her sheets and I feel from what she’s saying it’s making her MH worse. She says she feels like Midwife A is talking about her with the other midwife (not B) on duty who she seems friendly with, shared looks, little smirks, off comments.

The looks and such could be DD’s dislike for this midwife raring up. But the rest, is this normal! I feel like she’s over stepped the mark and made my child feel low because of her age and choices. Should we ignore this?

No that is not normal and there is nothing worse when you already have MH issues than a MW behaving like that.
I would personally call PALs or the ward sister and ask that this individual not be involved with your DD.
Honestly I had a MW like that and she reduced me to tears. She also said vile things about me to my home MW and to Social Services (who thankfully took no action).

Please stand up for your daughter, this was not an acceptable way to be treated.

I agree that she, or you, or her partner should ask to speak to the midwife in charge and say she’s not happy for Midwife A to come in her room at all from now on, and she’ll be making a complaint about her.
I had to do this when I had my first, the midwife insisted on giving me a bed bath without my agreement amongst other things. She was a total bitch who wouldn’t help me with breastfeeding and told me to express instead.
Your daughter doesn’t have to put up with this.

I havd had four children and have had some lovely midwives and some horrors. It took til the third child for me to learn to just roll my eyes, wait til they've left the room and then get on with things my way. I feel for your daughter and I would complain definitely.

I'd say something. I had baby twins. She slept like a dream. He whined and whined and whined. I'd had a C-section and couldn't get up (twins means two bassinets so I had to place them at the ends of the hospital bed). Any way, I was exhausted trying to slowly get up and pick up DS every half an hour because he was crying. It varied between pinging the bell for assistance (I'd been cut in half that morning, and there were two of them!) and a particular midwife coming in unannounced, tutting "someone's crying again"

I kept saying to them, I don't know what's wrong. He struggles to eat. Cries like he's hungry. He burps loads. She just kept tutting at me.

Turned out, he had a tongue tie that they hadn't noticed. She made me feel like I wasn't doing good enough.

Say something.

If baby was born yesterday she should be able to get about/to the toilet etc herself by now, also I would check on the catheter my daughter was an elective section born at 11.30 am I had the catheter taken out by about 6 maybe 7pm that day.
Regarding breast is best, midwives have to mention this, she is also right about cotton wool, it's much more gentle than wipes however shouldn't have binned them, the bib she could have just mentioned rather than taking baby away but it doesn't sound like she was particularly friendly to your daughter but I also would take things with a pinch of salt, shes probably very busy but its unlikely she was talking behind your daughters back, and especially not for her age 24 is not young to be having a baby and millions of women aren't married either, unless there have been any complications your daughter and baby should be being on their way soon anyway.

I think she sounds unpleasant.
Cant you go and spend the day with your DD so you can be there?
I had a few try and be shitty with me, luckily I'm a gobshite and can hold my own, but it's such a vulnerable time and there are lots of women who arent able to through lack of confidence or whatever.
When can she come home?
Surely this woman's shift will be over soon?
Agree a complaint should be put in.

Complain. Some midwives are bitches and get off on bullying new mums. It is due to one not listening and telling me not to be stupid that I nearly died at my son's birth and couldn't have the size of family I wanted .

When I had c sections, both times the catheter was removed within hours due to infection risk/risk of blood clots and I was encouraged to get up and out of bed to use the toilet. I think it was around 4 hours after my op the second time and my legs were still a bit tingly.

It's very odd that your DD is still in bed 24 hours later unless she had complications? Is that why the midwife is a little pissy with her?

Schafer, it was recommended in her HCP that 3-4 days minimum to observe her MH etc. She was sick after the section (think it was due to soemthing they gave her to keep her calmer) as well and took a bit longer to recover.

Redhelen, could you tell me why if it’s just my daughter feeling vulnerable why it’s acceptable for a midwife to snatch her baby from her? To lecture her continuously about BFing when she’s stated already her choice is personal and not simply about preference? Why this woman feels like she has the right to throw away or touch my DD’s property when she has no idea what it’s for?

She might be run off her feet but it doesn’t give her the right to be an arse. My girl is adult yes, but she’s vulnerable due to her history and the fact is she’s my child. I can encourage her to be more assertive but if she feels backed into a corner I’ll be there. I feel more protective because of history with ex husband but that’s another story.

I would make a complaint either ask for the person in charge, or through pals (normally only Monday to Friday).

Even if there are valid reasons for what she did and said, she should be realise the way she is coming across is not suitable for the situation. She shouldn't have binned the wipes, but put them back in her bag at. Most.

Complain.

Throwing away’s someone’s property, not readjusting her iv when she said it was hurting and telling her to suck it up is ridiculous, she shouldn’t have had to ask another midwife and then not respecting her choice to use formula is not on either. Once she said she had personal reasons, midwife should have said ok, if you have any questions let me know, not go off and print off something because she disagrees.

None of that is on. I’d definitely report her.

Plus, if your daughter’s written as vulnerable in her chart then midwife either didn’t read it or doesn’t care, either way, get a new midwife.

@SistineScreamer I’m so sorry she has had this experience, it sounds shitty. She is in a vulnerable position and clearly needs some support, is she staying with you when she leaves hospital?

She shouldn’t have BF rammed down her throat, I didn’t BF with either DS 5 nor DD 10 months. It was never ever challenged, not even once.
I’m quite feisty though and I can speak my mind... I’m not saying your DD isn’t ], but sounds like to me there can see that she is slightly vulnerable so using that as any opportunity to question her parenting choices?

advice your dd to find someone and ask for midwife A not to be allocated to her when she's on shift as its not working out.

That sounds pretty crap for anyone let alone someone who is forgoing MH meds for the sake of their baby. Hopefully she’ll be home soon.

I recently just gave birth and spent 24 hours on a postnatal ward because they wanted to keep an eye on DC after forceps delivery. I was 100% treated differently to the younger mums opposite me (I’m nearly 30). There were two 17 Year old new mums on the ward and they got ALOT of harsh lectures, where as I was pretty much left alone (even though I was using the dreaded water wipes to change DCs bum for the first time and the MW saw me). I dont know if age was a factor of course but I wasn’t really that pleasant as I just wanted to go home.. maybe they were avoiding me 😂

I wish I’d complained after I had DD, I was left with a cannula in my arm for 10 hours after I’d had her. They’d tried to get it into my hand but failed miserably. Because of the position of it, I couldn’t pick DD up. I was on my own, pressed buzzer loads and no one came. 4 hours later my DH came back wiht DS and he found someone as I couldn’t move my arm.

Re the catheter - I wasn't aware they could take them out so soon? We weren't told anything about when it would be taken out so assumed this was the norm.

Re the wipes - they weren't for baby. This was the issue. Though the trust's site states you can use them for newborns. they were for her, but midwife threw them out.

Re the bib - only worn for feeding and burping. If it was a risk why not tell her instead of taking baby from her and just taking it off?

The BFing thing is an issue because it's constant and she is feeling worse because of it.

@SistineScreamer as others have pointed out , midwives need to explain the benefits of breastfeeding. As you weren't there, you only have one side of the story. And given that you won't always be there to advocate for her then you are being a good parent by teaching her techniques to deal with people who may be overbearing.

I think she should be moving if she had a cesarian the day before, the hand iv should be out and the catheter out.

Places, this is the exact issue DD is having! The damn thing is pulling the skin up because she's reaching over to feed, hold baby, change baby etc it's getting worse and v awkward for her to move with it. She's sent me a photo and there's a plaster thing (?) over where it's in the vein in her hand but it's not holding it down as it should be.

Too big bib could be strangulation risk

The midwife could have explained that and asked OPs DD to remove the bib, not take the baby out of her arms and remove it herself. If DD refused to remove it then there are other steps to take to ensure the babies safety.

Breastfeeding midwives are supposed to encourage breast feeding so are more evangelicals than others.

They're also supposed to support and look after the women in their care. In this case she should have said I completely understand why you feel as you do, if you do change your mind we do have support available so let us know.

Perfect prep machines there are concerns that these do not provide sufficiently hot water to sterilise the milk powder.

There isn't if you add the powder first and then add the water, surely she could have either stretched herself to advising her of that, or just not passed judgment if she felt uncomfortable.

Wipes - some midwives believe that no wipes are suitable for new born skin and only cotton wool and water should've used.

Water wipes aren't harmful to a baby though, she had no right to throw them. She could have explained that the preferred way to wash newborn skin is cotton wool and water, but it's a parents choice.

None of those would actually take additional time, and it sounds like her attitude stinks.

OP I had a similar midwife, I reported to PALS because she was a nasty and unprofessional piece of work.

I would see if your daughter can change midwives.
The priority will be baby now rather than your daughter and the things midwife A has done are not wrong just poorly executed for your daughters needs for her mental health. At some point she is going to have to navigate this otherwise they will be on her like a ton of bricks.
I've had a child at 20 and 34 and tbh both times the midwives were not what I would call very fluffy. I just got out there as soon as I could. I was amused that with my youngest i was threatened with being referred to the paediatrician for him - it really ruined their day when I told them he had attended clinic already.

@Lonecatwithkitten

Breaking it down into small pieces. Too big bib could be strangulation risk. Breastfeeding midwives are supposed to encourage breast feeding so are more evangelicals than others. Perfect prep machines there are concerns that these do not provide sufficiently hot water to sterilise the milk powder. Wipes - some midwives believe that no wipes are suitable for new born skin and only cotton wool and water should've used. IV catheters move and alter position over time. So each individual point not unreasonable, but obviously there are several. She could asking to speak to the midwife in charge about having her midwife changed to someone who is maybe more used to dealing with a new mother who had your daughters history.

I absolutely agree. I shuddered a bit when I read about a one day old baby being put in a bib.

Redhelen, yes I realise this but you didn't answer my other questions. My girl was sexually assaulted. She's not comfortable BFing. She has stated her reasons are personal. She was still pushed and lectured and told the negatives of formula.

Her property was touched and thrown out. Why is this allowed? It wasn't for the baby.

Bib is a risk - okay. Tell my girl that. Don't snatch the baby and take the bib off.

She sounds like a nasty bully. A little kindness goes a long way when you've just had a baby, imho.