Is this Midwife out of line?

[SistineScreamer]

Curious as to what others would think. My daughter just had her first DC yesterday. She had an elective section and is still in hospital. My daughter is young, she’s 24, Not married (and has no intention to) but been with her DP since they were 16. She’s had some MH issues, stemmed from ex husband of mine. This is all noted in her file and is a manageable, she’s had to come off her medication during the pregnancy because of risks to the baby but she was more than willing to do this. She’s in a private room and not on a ward. All this information is important as I assume this is why she was treated the way she was.

She rang me 30 minutes ago in tears. Telling me one of the midwives assigned to her has been horrible to her. We’ll call her Midwife A.

All this is what she says happened - First, DD had baby in a onsie and bib, midwife A came in and commented that the bib was too big for baby, took baby out of DD’s arms and removed the bib. Even if the bib was too big why completely undermine her like that? Next, DD brought wipes for her face, body etc they were baby brand water wipes as her skin is overly sensitive to anything else. Midwife proceeded to lecture DD that these were wrong and cotton buds must be used with water instead, proceeded to bin wipes then leave the room.

Half an hour later Midwife A came back in to ask DD about her feeding choices. DD was sexually assaulted and does not feel comfortable breastfeeding, her choice. Midwife proceeded to give her the breast is best talk, asking why she wouldn’t consider breastfeeding, basically making her feel like shit for picking formula. DD mentioned she’d purchased a perfect prep machine for the formula (you know the ones that give the perfect shot of hot water at night so you don’t have to faff about with the kettle?) this woman nodded, left the room and came back 15 minutes later with a print out of the perfect prep machine....asking DD to confirm if this was what she was talking about. Nodding and tutting. What the fuck? Even if she wanted to know what DD was talking about, why print it out and bring it to her? Why not look it up herself?

Next issue came with the drip that was in DD’s hand, it was ripping the skin, physically pulling up the skin. She asked Midwife A if she could take it out or change it, to be told no nothing could be done. She’d just have to suck it up. An hour after she was told this another midwife came in, Midwife B, she begged midwife B to take it out and showed her what it was doing to her hand. Midwife B promptly took it out stating that there was no problem. Midwife A came back for her checks, asked DD what happened to the drop. DD explained that midwife B took it out, midwife A mumbled something about how that couldn’t be right and she’d have to check that ‘story’ right away.

DD is still vulnerable after birth, can’t move yet because of the catheter and has to be changed by this woman who she feels uncomfortable with and intimidated by. This woman has to handle her naked, change her sheets and I feel from what she’s saying it’s making her MH worse. She says she feels like Midwife A is talking about her with the other midwife (not B) on duty who she seems friendly with, shared looks, little smirks, off comments.

The looks and such could be DD’s dislike for this midwife raring up. But the rest, is this normal! I feel like she’s over stepped the mark and made my child feel low because of her age and choices. Should we ignore this?

@Graphista Perfect prep has a perfect bottle ready in 20 seconds

@Graphista and all those who are not familiar with the Perfect Prep, here is how it works;

You select the ounces you want and raise or lower the spout to the height of the bottle.
Measure formula into one of the capped cups which have a little spout under the lid (I always had 5/6 ready-measured)
Press the big button and it releases a shot of just the right amount of FILTERED very hot water, based on the ounces you selected. Add the pre-measured formula. Press big button again and it releases just the right amount of cold FILTERED water, based on the ounces you selected.
Put lid on bottle. Shake. Bottle is ready and is the perfect temperature.

If using Pre-measured formula, the entire process from start to actually handing baby the bottle takes 20 seconds........
If measuring formula, well, add on a few extra seconds? Maybe 1 minute?

If cleaned properly and always has the proper filters used (when it says it needs one) then these little machines are absolute LIFESAVERS in the middle of the night or when you come rushing in with a hungry baby after being stuck in traffic or similar. I would recommend them to anyone who cannot breastfeed. They're amazing

@Graphista

[quote Welcometothe36to40Box]**@Graphista* and all those who are not familiar with the Perfect Prep*, here is how it works;

You select the ounces you want and raise or lower the spout to the height of the bottle.
Measure formula into one of the capped cups which have a little spout under the lid (I always had 5/6 ready-measured)
Press the big button and it releases a shot of just the right amount of FILTERED very hot water, based on the ounces you selected. Add the pre-measured formula. Press big button again and it releases just the right amount of cold FILTERED water, based on the ounces you selected.
Put lid on bottle. Shake. Bottle is ready and is the perfect temperature.

If using Pre-measured formula, the entire process from start to actually handing baby the bottle takes 20 seconds........
If measuring formula, well, add on a few extra seconds? Maybe 1 minute?

If cleaned properly and always has the proper filters used (when it says it needs one) then these little machines are absolute LIFESAVERS in the middle of the night or when you come rushing in with a hungry baby after being stuck in traffic or similar. I would recommend them to anyone who cannot breastfeed. They're amazing [/quote]
The issue is the shot of water isn't boiling hot. It's 'perfect' temperature - thus making it not advisable to use as the water needs to be a certain temp to kill off any bacteria in the formula - goodness are people still not aware of this! It's been well documented and many doctors and health visitors will not recommend them for this reason

@rwoollsey Incorrect, it is BOILING hot, not perfect temperature.

"Press the big button and it releases a shot of just the right amount of FILTERED very hot water, based on the ounces you selected. Add the pre-measured formula. Press big button again and it releases just the right amount of cold FILTERED water"

The first shot is BOILING water - add formula which is sterilised by the boiling water. Then you add the cold water which BRINGS IT ALL to perfect temperature

@rwoollsey if you're gonna continue trolling this thread with your "perfect parenting" lectures then at least get your facts straight.

Clearly you have no idea how a perfect prep machine works. The first shot of water is BOILING 🙄🤦🏼‍♀️ we've all used one for years with no issues. Get over it.

It's funny how advice changes over time. When my children were babies we were specifically warned not to use boiling water because apparently it killed the nutritional content of the milk. We were supposed to boil the kettle and leave it for 40 minutes.

I know times change and advice changes in line with current research but using a shot of boiling water would have made life a lot easier because a 40 minute wait in the middle of the night with a crying baby felt like an eternity.

@Welcometothe36to40Box

Op I mean this kindly and with respect - From the way you describe your daughter, she sounds extremely fragile. (Did she just sit there and say nothing when the midwife threw the wipes away?)

Are you sure she is strong & stable enough to have a child? As I said, I mean this with respect and I'm only going on your own description of her.
As you know, as parents, we need to be able to defend ourselves and 'protect our young' as it were. Can she do this?

Also, where was Father whilst this was happening? You say they've been together for years, so was he not there? I'm not sure of the Covid rules in labour wards. What was his take on it all?

All I'm saying is that when I had my child, when the Midwife was awful to me (and she really, really was! Believe me! I'm getting flashbacks reading this!), if I'd rang my mum about it, she'd be gently telling me off for not defending myself and my baby!! Then again, she's not the compassionate type, but still...

Try reading the thread. OP said several times that DD's partner was there and witnessed this all going.

And DD is under the care of a consultant for her MH issues, and clearly had no qualms about DD's ability to be a mother.

And given that the time of giving birth leaves many women who don't have MH issues feeling vulnerable, then I completely understand why DD felt she needed help from her mum.

You can now read all the OP's posts in one go, just click the little bit at the bottom of one of their posts.

Funnily enough I can stand up for myself, my mum would no doubt stand in if I couldn't but thankfully I'm not a child so haven't had to test it since I was a teenager.

Being an ignorant, insensitive dick doesn't make you empowered,independent or better than anyone else. It just makes you a dick.

Your attitude is appalling and I hope that you are not in contact with any people that might be vulnerable or in need... for any reason.

Are you sure she is strong & stable enough to have a child

1. Her consultant think so ,even without meds.
2. The baby is already here
3. The hospital ward environment isn't often recreated outside the hospital.
4. Struggling to deal with bullying, being overtired, in pain and emotional in a strange environment where you are not in control does not mean that you're not perfectly capable to raise a child

The issue is the shot of water isn't boiling hot. It's 'perfect' temperature - thus making it not advisable to use as the water needs to be a certain temp to kill off any bacteria in the formula - goodness are people still not aware of this! It's been well documented and many doctors and health visitors will not recommend them for this reason

It's not meant to be scalding hot, if it's too hot it can break down some of the components in formula, hence why the guidance is to use slightly cooled (for 20 mins) boiled water from a kettle. The hot shot is hot enough (above 70), the issue is that it cools if you add the powder afterwards. This is the same issue if you use a kettle really, unless you take the temp everytime you use it. If you want to be so condescending perhaps get your facts right?

If everyone who felt unable to stand up to midwives within a couple of days of giving birth was deemed incapable of raising a child, there would be precious few children who would make it out of the maternity ward and home with their family. I don't know a single woman who wasn't fragile and weepy after giving birth.

Get her home ASAP this is not right!

@MulticolourMophead I'm perfectly aware of how to use the app, Thankyou

Also, just because a consultant says a patient is stable, it doesn't mean they are. As her mother, OP is the one who will know best, besides the woman herself. It was a politely asked question, based on how OP has described her. It's none of your business and the question was not directed to you!

I've had clinical depression for over 20 years including both Pre-Natal & Post-Natal depression & SEVERE post natal anxiety. I know how fragile you can be when you've just had a baby and have pre-existing mental health issues. I know what I'm talking about!

@isabellerossignol Thanks for completely twisting my words to fit your own narrative! 👍🏻 Cheers

This is the same issue if you use a kettle really, unless you take the temp everytime you use it.

Exactly. I had to do work on this as part of my job and I’ve observed many women making up bottles.

Not one of them ever checked the temp. It’s a very inexact science. When I checked the temp for then, the variation was insane.

The perfect prep is at least as accurate as the average person making a bottle.

@isabellerossignol the advise is still not to use boiling hot water. It's to boil the kettle, allow to cool for around half an hour and use.

The PP hot shot is not boiling hot water either. It's around 80 degrees when it hits the powder when I tested my machine.

Thank you for the explanations on perfect prep and the kind posts re my last post.

I just am sick to the back teeth of mentally ill being treated and spoken about like shit!

@rwoollsey - @SistineScreamer is a mother whose daughter is a sexual abuse survivor, with mental health problems, who has been off her meds throughout her pregnancy (but has coped admirably with this), who has had a C-section (major abdominal surgery), and is, as a result of all of these factors, more vulnerable than most women at this point (and most of us ARE vulnerable, immediately post-partum, due to hormones, tiredness etc).

Do you honestly think that a decent mother would abandon her own child to deal with what this young woman has faced with Midwife A, because she's an adult who should be able to deal with anything on her own?

Do you have any children of your own, and if so, are you planning to abandon them once they turn 18? I have three sons, and it has been my goal as a mother to raise independent young men, who can cope with the vicissitudes of life - and by and large, they can. But when they do have a problem and want some support or advice from me or their father, we are there for them. THAT is what a GOOD parent does.

I used to be a nurse, and am horrified at the way that the midwife has treated your dd, @SistineScreamer. She sounds like a bully, and her behaviour is utterly unacceptable.

However, I think that the ward Sister's investigation needs to look beyond this midwife, to the communication between the ante-natal team, your dd's mental health team, and the post natal ward. In my opinion, where the patient has a specific need (physical, mental or emotional) or where there is a specific history (medical, psychological etc - like your dd's abuse history), this is something that should be flagged up clearly between the teams. It sounds as if the post natal ward has no idea about your dd's history of sexual abuse and whilst it is in the notes, on a busy ward, staff don't always have the time to read the notes as well as they should do, so anything specific, that impacts on the patient's immediate care, should be mentioned specifically. Eg:

"Hi Sister Post-natal, this is Sister Labour ward - we're sending you a lady who's just had a section. She is 24 years old, had an epidural, is catheterised and has an IV in place. This lady is a sexual abuse survivor, and has decided not to breastfeed as a result. She has mental health issues and has not taken her meds during pregnancy, so is more vulnerable, and this will need to be borne in mind during her postnatal care".

As an operating theatre nurse, who handed patients over from Recovery, to the ward staff, I had to give a proper handover, so they knew the salient facts - communication is key, IMO.

This post makes me realise why no one wants to train as a midwife. Clearly the midwife has made a number of mistakes, but the level of accusation and escalation seem quite major. When I had my first baby the epidural went wrong and I was paralysed. Notes weren't passed on so ward midwife shouted at me to go and get my own food. Then seemed to think it was somehow my fault no one had removed my catheter. I didn't realize she didn't know I couldn't move, so yes, I cried. Still, she was very nice when I was flat on the floor after being told I should get up. It never even crossed my mind to complain. It's a cock-up, not a conspiracy, 95% of the time.

Hope your DD gets home today, OP. What a horrible midwife!!

It's a cock-up, not a conspiracy, 95% of the time.

And that's why poor standards are still present in a lot of healthcare settings. It's also not just about dobbing someone in and getting them in trouble, the midwife probably doesn't realise she has been hurtful, it's unlikely she is doing it maliciously, but she should be told and it should be addressed.

[quote Welcometothe36to40Box]@MulticolourMophead I'm perfectly aware of how to use the app, Thankyou

Also, just because a consultant says a patient is stable, it doesn't mean they are. As her mother, OP is the one who will know best, besides the woman herself. It was a politely asked question, based on how OP has described her. It's none of your business and the question was not directed to you!

I've had clinical depression for over 20 years including both Pre-Natal & Post-Natal depression & SEVERE post natal anxiety. I know how fragile you can be when you've just had a baby and have pre-existing mental health issues. I know what I'm talking about! [/quote]
Anyone is free to respond to any post. So I did. And having read the OP's posts, I didn't see any need to ask OP whether she thought her DD would be stable enough to be a mother. And I'm no stranger to significant MH issues, either for myself or within my family, plus ASD.

@Tootletum

This post makes me realise why no one wants to train as a midwife. Clearly the midwife has made a number of mistakes, but the level of accusation and escalation seem quite major. When I had my first baby the epidural went wrong and I was paralysed. Notes weren't passed on so ward midwife shouted at me to go and get my own food. Then seemed to think it was somehow my fault no one had removed my catheter. I didn't realize she didn't know I couldn't move, so yes, I cried. Still, she was very nice when I was flat on the floor after being told I should get up. It never even crossed my mind to complain. It's a cock-up, not a conspiracy, 95% of the time.

Wow so if you were able to walk and get your own food you'd still expect to be shouted at?

That's not a mistake that's just rude and vile and women do not have to put up with that kind of attitude!