Is anyone else boycotting Tesco's for giving £80,000 to Mermaids?

[loveyouradvice]

Just that really... I was shocked, especially given all the news coverage there has been about the issues recently. I would have expected them to give it to an uncontroversial charity at the very least - and ideally one that most of their customers would like to support

You won’t. You can’t. you blame others for not being able to have a proper conversation when I’ve been trying throughout, then you use a blatant misrepresentation to accuse me of transphobia. You may need to look closer to home for why you can’t have a proper discussion.

There are some posters on this thread for whom these misrepresentations have been their main contribution to the discussion.

Your own reading of the situation seems to accept that the risks posed by Mermaids are to be weighed more heavily than the assistance they might give. Hence your insistence on parental responsibility and proper medical advice.

No I think when it comes to ANY medical procedure on children that parents have a responsibility to look into the risks involved from all sides.

Actually I meant to ask a while (although no one will answer, I'm sure)what's some people's beef with Safe Schools Alliance?

I imagine the same one as their beef with people who criticise Mermaids.

I know winesalot.
Its interesting isnt it.
Its for the lurkers really.

The NHS guidance states that if a parent suspects their child may have gender dysphoria then they should speak to a GP. So it asks the question, why aren't parents doing this and instead aimlessly pushing their kids to have medical procedues?

Well, that's a jump of logic and misses out that many parents do both and that I was discussing parent support groups.

Many parents both seek out GPs and support groups for any number of conditions, including gender dysphoria. It can be a very hard time. Some of those support groups are amazing at helping parents and young people search out options and talk through things. Some are highly ideological on the one true path. Mermaids generally has been on the latter side with highly medical ideals, though individual groups differ. There have been cases where staff have given harmful support and any organization which does that should be responsible for it and be pushed to make changes so it doesn't happen again. I've been in medical support groups that have been very fucking wrong, but I had other support - if that's your only support, only access to feeling heard and understood, different choices are more likely to be made.

Yes, parents have responsibility, but they also have the least systemic power. I don't see it as a blame game but that the system is horrifically broken, many parts of it have responsibilities to improve that will likely need outside incentives to actually do so. Until that happens, those most in need of support will be at risk. Tesco doesn't feel a big part of it to me, but for those who feel passionately - as they supported 3 charities, it might be worthwhile campaigning for them to support a different support charity, at least next time.

And yes, if you've had difficulties with a medical professional before or medical anxiety or you feel just completely out of your depth on it, it can be embarrassing to go to GPs no matter the reason why. I often seek out support before I do so, which isn't that uncommon - many medical support groups have regular influx of people preparing to visit doctors and want to make sure they do it right in what limited time they have and many feel embarrassed about having to discuss private things with doctors. It's not that horrible to have those feelings.

Also, transgendered is to transgender as yellowed is to yellow and not all people with gender dysphoria identify as trans.

The “category of people” referred to is not transgender people, or even people supportive of trans rights, it’s trans rights activists

Trans rights activists don't speak for all trans rights activists though!
Most will be moderate, just campaigning for their rights and sickened by the vile extremists just as much as us, that was my point - it's the lumping as all together.

Perhaps this is a great time to point out that mermaids has provided many schools with advice and kits. And is no doubt a 'teacher's reference' to best practice to deal with a child experiencing gender dysphoria. They have positioned themselves (and through successful advertising and sponsorship) as the 'go to' full resource organisation.

They have, and as @winesalot also points out, any attempt to highlight concerns about their practices is quickly denounced as 'transphobic'.

If parents are manipulating their children into believing they are trans, I would expect a reputable charity to highlight this to the relevant safeguarding organisations, not become an ally to the manipulator.

Although this IPSO case was resolved through mediation, I still think the information in here regarding Mermaids is very interesting and very damning.

www.ipso.co.uk/rulings-and-resolution-statements/ruling/?id=18904-17

I'll certainly be trying to avoid Tesco if at all possible.

@LemonadeAndDaisyChains

The “category of people” referred to is not transgender people, or even people supportive of trans rights, it’s trans rights activists

Trans rights activists don't speak for all trans rights activists though!
Most will be moderate, just campaigning for their rights and sickened by the vile extremists just as much as us, that was my point - it's the lumping as all together.

Exactly. On many trans threads on here if you suggest that you support the rights of transgender people than you are "accused" of being a TRA as if they are all these horrible, anti women people. And yes, I've also been told on Mumsnet that if i support trans rights than I am anti woman, which is ridiculous.

Perhaps this is a great time to point out that mermaids has provided many schools with advice and kits. And is no doubt a 'teacher's reference' to best practice to deal with a child experiencing gender dysphoria. They have positioned themselves (and through successful advertising and sponsorship) as the 'go to' full resource organisation.

They’re definitely trying, but I’ve made it a mission over the past 3-4 years to open my colleagues’ eyes to what Mermaids, Stonewall and their ilk are really about (I work in Education Safeguarding).

Once people realise the resources are from lobbying groups they tend to back away, as we do with all biased materials that come into schools.

@LemonadeAndDaisyChains

The “category of people” referred to is not transgender people, or even people supportive of trans rights, it’s trans rights activists

Trans rights activists don't speak for all trans rights activists though!
Most will be moderate, just campaigning for their rights and sickened by the vile extremists just as much as us, that was my point - it's the lumping as all together.

FFS I didn’t say all trans rights activists sent abuse, or that they spoke for everyone (hence “claim to” speak for”). The post said the people who sent abuse fell into the category of being TRAs, not that all TRAs sent abuse. Major difference.

And lumping trans rights activists together - how would that be “transphobic” given loads aren’t transgender?

I’d be interested to see anyone who would be categorised as a TRA speaking out as being “sickened” by the abuse though. I didn’t see much of that on twitter but would be delighted to find out I’m wrong.

It's like the extremists on here.
How is it any better when it's the other way round?
There's a lot more moderate views than the extremist ones, but if trans people say everyone on MN is a TF, er, no they're not but there's definitely some not all extremists.

Trans rights activists don't speak for all trans rights activists though!

And round and round we go. If there is a problem with a particular form of activism, it will be called out. Just like some people on here feel that FWR is problematic. It's a matter of perspective, really.

I’d be interested to see anyone who would be categorised as a TRA speaking out as being “sickened” by the abuse though. I didn’t see much of that on twitter but would be delighted to find out I’m wrong.

Me too.

blubellsarebells

yes. And I see it all the time on twitter too. Never an actual answer or a robust or peer reviewed study or set of statistics. Just pseudo science and name calling to shut down people voices. Usually women. Usually women who have read both sides of the argument and seen the discrepancies, the obfuscating behaviour, and the complete lack of evidence for supporting the erosion of women's rights and in fact, the right to call ourselves women even.

No it doesn't excuse them, that's you making that assumptions. It pins the blame on the parents who agreed to it.

Seems like you think parents who abuse their children aren't to blame at all.

I don't care about blame. I care about identifying factors and responsibilities in order to prevent the same tragedies happening again.

In other areas where children's rights are infringed, this means looking at organisations who gave guidance and reviewing procedures to see how what was happening could have been spotted sooner by professionals with safeguarding responsibilities.

Why doesn't it mean that here?

I've seen the bad parents line trotted out before, especially in regard to quacks giving medical advice that led to children's death. It has no ethical force with me.

That's great to hear @FamilyOfAliens

Trans rights activists don't speak for all trans rights activists though! Most will be moderate, just campaigning for their rights and sickened by the vile extremists just as much as us, that was my point - it's the lumping as all together.

Moderate trans people don't throw claims of 'transphobic' around, don't constantly make claims that others are against them, don't use words like c*s which they have been told repeatedly are insulting.

Also,' moderate trans activists' would have no reason to campaign for 'trans rights' as they already have all the rights available to others (and then some).

@LemonadeAndDaisyChains

It's like the extremists on here. How is it any better when it's the other way round? There's a lot more moderate views than the extremist ones, but if trans people say everyone on MN is a T*F, er, no they're not but there's definitely some* not all extremists.

so then Lemonade, are you saying that not every poster who posts on the FWR boards is anti trans and when you say the boards are transphobic you mean a 'some posters post transphobic content but this content is deleted so their posts are no longer available to read' style of transphobia?

Moderate trans people don't throw claims of 'transphobic' around, don't constantly make claims that others are against them, don't use words like cs which they have been told repeatedly are insulting.*

This is actually a very good point. I have had some great interactions with transmen and transwomen who do not throw around these terms. And who repeatedly say that the JKR tweets were not transphobic. Maybe they are wrong though? Maybe those people need to be educated?

Also,' moderate trans activists' would have no reason to campaign for 'trans rights' as they already have all the rights available to others (and then some). And some transmen and transwomen are even vocal about preserving women's rights.

In the past year my son (now 15) has gone from:

omnivore - veggie (briefly) - healthy eater - dustbin
athiest - Buddhist - Christian
Football agnostic - football crazy

Kids huh.

Rainbow stuffed in their ears?

Well folks, not only do you now have a clear example of transphobia, this post also hits the homophobic tick box

This, I mean just done an actual !
What's rainbows in this context? I;m guessing not clap for NHS?
So it must be - LGBT?
I quite like the idea of rainbows coming out of my ears.
Can I have dancing unicorns too, I like them

@LemonadeAndDaisyChains

Rainbow stuffed in their ears?

Well folks, not only do you now have a clear example of transphobia, this post also hits the homophobic tick box

This, I mean just done an actual !
What's rainbows in this context? I;m guessing not clap for NHS?
So it must be - LGBT?
I quite like the idea of rainbows coming out of my ears.
Can I have dancing unicorns too, I like them

And yet everyone except you has dismissed it, ignoring all the offensive language in it. Funny that but yeah, Mumsnet definitely don't have an issue with transphobia 🙄

If it transphobic, please report it.

People ask why I'm still here, why do I post if I hate it here so much?
I don't hate it here so much. I like MN, I've been here years.
I'm not liking what it's increasingly becoming though, and I can't stay silent when I see stuff like this go unchallenged, or maybe it's just all the rainbows stuffed between my ears getting to me lol