To report this person to their employer for hate speech?

[NickMyLipple]

I've attached a screenshot - I am not friends with this person. She does however display her work on social media and she is in her uniform with her lanyard on display in her profile picture and in other photos which are accessible to the public.

It's NHS Values Week and I feel very strongly that if you're going to publically display your workplace you need to be responsible in not making such racist and hateful comments.

I called her out on it and the post has now been deleted.

AIBU to call the HR department and complain, or should I leave it and hope that she thinks carefully before she posts in future?

Even if it is unacceptable to say things like this, the constant threat of being “reported” is having a chilling effect on rational debate, including on the conditions that these poor garment workers are being forced to work in.

Making statements on social media that boil down to "send the buggers back" is not rational debate.

Besides, it cannot be assumed that if the woman in question is reported to the NHS that she will be summarily dismissed. What it does do is give the NHS the opportunity, if they choose to take it, to look at her more closely. I hope they would - she is not delivering parcels for Amazon or stacking shelves in a supermarket, she works in healthcare.

Depending on her role, she could have the potential to significantly impact the health and wellbeing of patients in her care. You cannot assume that her racist attitude won't influence how she cares for non-white people, just as we cannot assume that a racist police officer wouldn't abuse their position to the detriment of black people they come into contact with in the course of their job. She might be entirely professional but equally she might be denying non-white people appropriate levels of care or even actively causing them harm. How would the NHS even know to check if they weren't alerted to her views?

She would be in real trouble for that comment if you reported her. You seem as though you would be happy if she lost her job. Says a lot about you frankly.

The fact that you think her racist attitude shouldn't even be raised with her employer, especially given the sector she works in, says a lot about you. I wonder if you would feel the same if this was a different scenario? If a male school teacher posted a highly sexual and predatory comment about clearly underage girls would you be so quick to rush to his defense?

And if a crime has been committed - phone the police. It’s the police and the courts that dish out consequences not random people on facebook.

This is a disingenuous thing to say. For one thing, it’s bollocks that the police are the only institution who can effect consequences for actions like this. Employers have every right to take the steps they feel are appropriate if their employees are not abiding by the rules of their employment. If an employer thinks their employee would benefit from diversity training, or if they don’t think it’s suitable for the employee to continue in their service, they’re perfectly entitled to take the necessary actions to effect that without police involvement.

But more importantly, it’s disingenuous because if you object to this woman losing her job for her racist views, you would almost certainly also object to her being arrested and charged with a hate crime. But you know that’s very unlikely to happen because the police are 1) institutionally racist and 2) chronically underfunded, meaning that there is no prospect of them investigating every instance of racist speech on Facebook, and so even if a report was made, the likelihood of this woman actually facing any real consequences as a result are next to zero. You also know that many people would consider this to be hate speech and wrong, but wouldn’t consider it worthy of being a police matter. So you advise reporting to the police instead of utilising other avenues of restitution because you know fine well it’s the one avenue that would most likely lead to nothing, and because you know many people would consider that to be disproportionate. It’s a ‘solution’ designed to uphold the status quo and discourage people from taking action.

School is a bit different though , especially if the person concerned is a teacher. I agree with Suzanne Moore's take on cancel culture in the Guardian. You have the moral high ground - though not always , see JKR , but you risk alienating a lot of people in the long run. I'd unfriend them and say why but destroying someone's livelihood is a bit extreme.

@Evelefteden

BinkyBoinky you’ve just totally rubbished Lockdownbreakdowns ( who is none white) point of view. What makes your point of view more important than hers? Do her lived experiences and thoughts not align with yours?

No, I've disagreed with her. It's called um, a discussion. We're all agreeing and disagreeing with each other. You know, on a forum? My point of view is not more important than hers, just like yours is not more important than mine.

I'm also non-white. Am I not allowed to disagree with other non-white people then? Lockdown and I are actually on the same side, just have opinions on different methods to deal with the problem.

But she wont lose her job, no more than the teacher I reported, shell get a tongue lash and a day at a diversity course. I think it is significant to report in any public facing job.

We have to take a stand. At some point we all have to decide what's acceptable to us. And if you are anti racist then yes you should report.

I'd unfriend them and say why but destroying someone's livelihood is a bit extreme.

In this scenario it would be the racist who destroyed her own livelihood, not the OP.

Personally I think accepting poorer health outcomes for people of colour so that we can protect the employment prospects of racists is a bit extreme, but that’s just me.

It's reassuring to read so many well thought out responses actively being anti-racist. It chills me that there are some of you who clearly advocate the right to speak hatefully under the guise of "free speech". So deplorable. Remember when some Imams were doing the same to indoctrinate suicide bombing in children from a young age. Was that ok @Evelefteden ? Because by your 'reasoning' they had every right to speak as they wished. It's a completely ridiculous argument.

For those saying we are missing the point about the awful working conditions in that picture. Er no. But the post wasn't about that. That doesn't mean that those conditions are acceptable and like I said before if this company are breaching lockdown rules or have workers in conditions that breach H&S then they have to be held accountable.

For those who want our society to progress and to equalise so that BAME are not negatively impacted by the colour of their skin then let's keep speaking up for our fellow humans.

Can we just take a second to understand that if you are a HCP you shouldn't be giving good care to patients because you personally approve or sympathise with them but because you are a professional and accept that whatever your views on someone they are entitled to your best level of care. NHS treats everyone. Violent criminals, paedophiles, rapists. It shouldn't be a prerequisite of an HCP that they don't hold any negative views about someone but that they are able to treat people with care and dignity whatever their views on the patient. So yes if someone hated middle class white women who made picky teas (as example above) a middle class white woman who made picky teas should still expect to get good care whatever the personal views of her healthcare team.
It's not controlling the views of HCP that is a solution, people will always have biases and prejudiced around certain groups no matter what characteristic that's based on. It's ensuring they can still be professional despite that.
The subject of the OP expressed racist views whilst 'representing' her workplace - that's wrong and there should be consequence as this will affect people's views of her workplace and erode trust in her profession which is vital for people to receive good care. It's not wrong full stop that a HCP has anti-immigration views. It's only of it affects her at work and it's part of what being a HCP is that you don't let it affect you at work. And if it does again - you should face consequences.
Anti-racism efforts need to be organisation wide. It's not just reporting people who express racist views (though that is part of it). People who don't hold those views can still provide poorer care to black people for example because structural racism in medicine an research has led to white being the default patient. So black women who are pregnant may present with some conditions differently and a midwife through no fault of her own could give her poorer care than a white woman with the same condition because what she learnt about how that condition presents was how they present in white people. So everybody needs to work to reduce this kind of prejudice across the board and everybody needs to accept they are professionals first and their personal views are irrelevant at work.
You can't expect a workforce to agree and like all their patients as a standard for good care - it's just not a solid foundation. It's treating them with respect no matter who they are no question and no matter what you think.

School is a bit different though , especially if the person concerned is a teacher.

why is it different? Both scenarios involve people in positions of trust working with vulnerable individuals where they've expressed views that indicate they may present a risk to those in their care. Logically there is no difference. There is only a difference if you think racism is not that big a deal.

The 1950s (Soviet Union version) just called and wants you back. Seriously, when did we become these people to denounce friends! Just don’t be friends with this person any more. You know what they used to say at school, “Telly pie tit, your tongue shall be slit, and every dog in England will have a little bit.”

Leaving the part hilarious, part disturbing fact that your argument boils down to a schoolyard rhyme, the SECOND SENTENCE of the OP’s post states ‘I am not friends with this person’. I know it’s very fashionable on MN to breezily declare ‘Haven’t RTFT but I think my view is so important I’m going to comment anyway’, but I would have thought two sentences from the original post was manageable for most people.

I'm shocked and chilled too that anyone can defend racism in the guise of free speech advocacy. It's not good enough to be good you have to stand up and speak against racism and discrimination. And these acts do make a difference, they do, if enough of society speaks out then anti racism becomes the norm. Hard won human rights haven't been granted due to passivity, people fought for them

Report her. Racists often are unbelievably dense. Anyone as thick as her to engage in this kind of bigotry online while everyone knows where she works is a drag on her employer. They will be well rid of her.

You can't expect a workforce to agree and like all their patients as a standard for good care - it's just not a solid foundation. It's treating them with respect no matter who they are no question and no matter what you think.

Racism isn’t about ‘not liking’ somebody. It’s having the view that somebody is less worth of equal treatment because of their race. And that is the exact attitude this woman has shown - she wouldn’t have said that a white factory owner should he made to leave the country for doing something wrong. She might have said they should be arrested or fined, but she wouldn’t have questioned their residency status. The fact that instead of calling for an arrest or a fine she specifically called for them to leave the country shows that she doesn’t consider them to be equal citizens.

How can you trust someone like that to give good healthcare to people of different races? If they have already proven that they consider race to be a basis for treating people differently, how can you rely on them treating all of their patients the same?

I agree that anti-racism efforts need to be organisation wide and that it’s never enough to just cherry pick the obviously bad eggs. But that doesn’t mean we should turn a blind eye to the people who clearly show themselves to be racists either.

What about views on transgender rights?

TRAs would love to see feminists kicked out of jobs and would always report this kind of stuff (you can imagine they’ll say something about poorer outcomes in the NHS due to bigotry but no evidence holding GC views leads to poorer standard of care for transpeople).

@Evelefteden

Don't quite think that's fair on OP. Why shouldn't people have to face consequences for racism

And if a crime has been committed - phone the police. It’s the police and the courts that dish out consequences not random people on facebook.

Nobody is saying its a crime... This isn't a legal situation. Do you seriously think a employer's right to detirmine the kind of people who represent their company is a legal matter? You really aren't getting it.

I'm sure the NHS would be mortified by some dickhead wearing their uniform whilst being a massive racist on a public platform. I'm not usually in to cancel culture but in this instance, considering the stats on how BAME patients receive sub standard care, I would happily report her I'm afraid.
There's a difference between free speech and racism.

Racists aren't dense though. We assume they are because of their racism but look at the top tier of the SS, all had phds. Nick G leader if BNP has a cambridge degree. It's harder to grasp that some highly educated and intelligent people actively chose to become or remain racist. They like it.

@Abhannmor

School is a bit different though , especially if the person concerned is a teacher. I agree with Suzanne Moore's take on cancel culture in the Guardian. You have the moral high ground - though not always , see JKR , but you risk alienating a lot of people in the long run. I'd unfriend them and say why but destroying someone's livelihood is a bit extreme.

@Abhannmor why is school different? both are in a position of trust and both are expected to behave reasonably in and out of work

@evelefteden do you understand that freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom of consequences? You seem to assume consequences can only be legal matters but that's not true. I'd suggest you look into it and actually read what people are saying on here as you seem quite confused.

@abhannmorr being racist affects literally millions of people, their careers, their health, their mental wellbeing. But let's focus on saving this racist's job for something she CHOSE to do on a public social media platform.

I'd unfriend them and say why but destroying someone's livelihood is a bit extreme.

Her livelihood would hardly be ruined. The most likly course of action would be a verbal warning from her employer and she'd get sent on a diversity course.

Nobody is saying its a crime... This isn't a legal situation. Do you seriously think a employer's right to detirmine the kind of people who represent their company is a legal matter? You really aren't getting it

Grey no matter how many times you say ‘your not getting it’ or ‘you don’t understand’ and implying I’m thick I won’t changed my point of view - which I’m entitled to. I do get what your saying. I just don’t agree with you.

If it’s not a crime why is it down to individuals to start dishing out their own style of social justice?

And actually you’d be surprised at the court cases that are on going at the moment where ex employees are taking their employers to court over being sacked because of wrong think.

@GreytExpectations

I'd unfriend them and say why but destroying someone's livelihood is a bit extreme.

Her livelihood would hardly be ruined. The most likly course of action would be a verbal warning from her employer and she'd get sent on a diversity course.

And how on earth would you know that? Are you their employee?

If she loses her job it will be her own fault - nobody else's.