To report this person to their employer for hate speech?

[NickMyLipple]

I've attached a screenshot - I am not friends with this person. She does however display her work on social media and she is in her uniform with her lanyard on display in her profile picture and in other photos which are accessible to the public.

It's NHS Values Week and I feel very strongly that if you're going to publically display your workplace you need to be responsible in not making such racist and hateful comments.

I called her out on it and the post has now been deleted.

AIBU to call the HR department and complain, or should I leave it and hope that she thinks carefully before she posts in future?

But we have to be very careful when we command every one thinks the same or they may forfeit their entire life.

Except she’s not forfeiting her life, is she? She will probably have to go on diversity training. At worst, she will lose her job.

The people actually forfeiting their lives are the people receiving less than exemplary care because they aren’t white. They’re the ones currently dealing with the consequences of health care providers being racist. Why do you object to shifting those consequences so that they’re faced by the racist person, and not the victims of that racism?

Freedom of speech is very very important to a society other wise we will turn in to places like Korea. People getting sent to Jail just because of what they think. We already have a system that takes new born babies of mothers incase they might harm them. So women getting punished before they have actually done anything. Nobody has any evidence this women has treated ethic minorities any differently. She’s being sentenced on here for what she might do.

Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences. Your employer has every right to terminate your employment if you say things which are racist.

Free speech has never been an unqualified right. Those who claim that it is or should be are simply ignorant of the law and the history of this country.

The women in the OP case sounds like an ignorant racist arsehole but she is still ( or should be) allowed her own point of view - however how repugnant it is.

Do you think it’s right that black people should face worse healthcare outcomes than white people in order to protect this woman’s point of view? Do you consider that a fair and reasonable resolution?

What if we were in northern Ireland where abortions are illegal and an NHS worker poster supported abortions on facebook. Would some one be entitled to report her to the police of her place of work?

No, because disagreeing with a law is not illegal or immoral, and is therefore not comparable to expressing racist views. I am in favour of legalising drugs and have expressed this view on social media in the past. That is, very obviously, different from me saying that immigrants don’t belong in this country. Do you understand how these things aren’t remotely similar?

Splodge tasting with the death rates for BAME people getting covid running at about 4 times that if white people. ..it's not a playground issue us it. Grow up.

@splodgetastic so people should just sit back passively in fear. I hope I'm not anywhere near you if I get attacked in the street...

I appreciate that this is hate speech, but I don’t agree with reporting people for everything left, right and centre. Where do you draw the line? Even if it is unacceptable to say things like this, the constant threat of being “reported” is having a chilling effect on rational debate, including on the conditions that these poor garment workers are being forced to work in.

We're not talking about "everything left, right and centre" - we're talking about overt racism. "Kicked out of our country" is an extreme racist POV. How does she know it's not his country too?

No one is getting attacked in the street in this case. Unfortunately some people confuse social media with the pub. The way I would have dealt with this one is just to private message the person and say that your comment is not acceptable and for this reason I don’t want to hear from you again. No need to involve third parties. I think receiving a message from a friend is likely to be a more powerful message than calling the police who will likely not do anything about it or lose someone their job when in all likelihood other people rely on them for that money.

Posts like this mean we might have a proper discussion on political issues. If people can be educated, listened to and our leaders are honest then I doubt we would have this racist behaviour. People post stuff like this when they feel there is nothing they can do. The conditions in that factory look appalling, breaking all H&S laws, the employees rights are being massively abused but let’s focus on a one person’s ignorant views.

[quote EnoughAlready2020]@evelefteden so if I was at work and told someone I thought they were a racist fucking twat there should be no consequence to that because you know "freedom of speech". Don't you see that ESPECIALLY for NHS workers the consequences extend beyond their place of work because they are in a public facing role? Would you be okay with a police officer saying the same thing on a public network because we can all hide behind "freedom of speech"?[/quote]
I suggest you have a look at twitter if you as they already are.

And if you were in work and verbally attacked a colleague then yes I think you’d get in shit.

Another thread here where a woman has effectively lost her job, dropped by a publisher after pressure because she showed showing support for JKR. It is not 'are you happy about racism' versus 'do you support free speech.'

You can be in favour of free speech, deplore racism and be against the culture of reporting.

Yet another woman - a writer - sacked after TRA campaign. www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3955475-Yet-another-woman-a-writer-sacked-after-TRA-campaign

You can be in favour of free speech, deplore racism and be against the culture of reporting.

Of course you can. But there are going to be times when those values conflict with each other.

When someone is racist, you have to decide if you’re going to support the racist’s right to free speech, or the victim of racism’s right not to be subject to racism. Do you side with oppressor or oppressed in that scenario?

You have to choose. And if your choice is to sit on the fence and do nothing, then you have chosen the side of the oppressor because silence in the face of oppression only ever benefits the oppressor, never the oppressed.

A report to an employer under these circumstances is one tool in the Arsenal we have to stand up to racism. It might not be warranted or appropriate in all circumstances, but in this example - where the racist in question is a healthcare provider and where we know that racism in healthcare is costing people of colour their health and sometimes even their lives - I think it’s hard to argue that it is a disproportionate or unreasonable response.

@lockdownbreakdown

Umm I'm not white and neither are my family. I still dont want to live in a totalitarian regime. The best cure for racism is generally lots of exposure. I would rather engage with people and challenge their views than ruin their lives because they offend me. That's what's wonderful about living in a democracy, you are not constantly looking over your shoulder and you have free speech. Racism is awful but you cant cancel it away or you just force it underground.

It's a myth that lots of exposure will cure racism. More exposure actually increases it, because there is such a thing as brainwashing. The more an idea is repeated the more people believe it. They think it can't be wrong if enough people are saying it. It's already happened with Brexit, for example. Why do you think the Far Right and Leave campaigns spent so much time and money trying to influence people? Because they know it works. And it has.

Challenging racism is not "totalitarian". Some of these people on here seem to think it's totalitarian to fight racism but it's OK to fight ageism or sexism at all costs.

Racism NEEDS to be challenged at every turn otherwise who will see the counter arguments? If there aren't any repercussions then nothing will happen. It will only get worse.

If we ignore it and hope the universe will give them their comeuppance somehow, sorry but that's just weak.

I certainly don’t like that that company were going to defy lockdown. They should be held to account for that and I hope they are.

She would be in real trouble for that comment if you reported her. You seem as though you would be happy if she lost her job. Says a lot about you frankly.

When you go out, post on social media, appear anywhere with reference to your work e.g. uniform, etc you are an ambassador for that workplace. If you then post hate speech on that platform then you are doing so as an ambassador for your workplace, even if your profile states that “views are my own,” because people look at the picture not the description of the profile, and therefore the first assumption they make is that an nhs worker is posting racist bile on twitter.

And people suggesting her life is ruined/her career is over/she will lose her job are being hysterical. Whenever you don’t challenge these kind of views, you endorse them. Because not challenging them means that that person is free to keep saying what they want without consequence.

And in that instance challenging them on your own isn’t enough. People with such repugnant views are entitled to hold them, entitled to speak them if they must, but they also must do so in the knowledge that they could be held accountable for them.

If you were hiring and were looking through a candidate’s social media beforehand (and a lot of employers do this btw,) and saw those views, would you still hire them?

OP I think you are completely right in wanting to report her to your work HR. I definitely would.
I have seen a lot of comments about people being allowed a private life etc, but you have gone beyond that by posting PUBLICLY on a social media forum. There is no way people can have awful views and not bring them into work - even if it's in a small subconscious way. I would wonder how much of her practice is influenced by her views, even if it means not taking for example the health concerns of a black or Asian person into proper consideration leading to poor outcomes for them.

@evelefteden you are willfully misunderstanding me and others posts. It's ironic that you seem to think people shouldn't be allowed to react to your "free speech" but yet you can say whatever you want without consequence. Basically, you want to silence people who are subject to racism. Nice.

FGS, I knew this thread would be full of apologists for racism.

This woman is overtly racist. She works for the NHS. OK, you're white and so are all your friends, so not your problem. Woohoo.

But imagine that, instead of being a massive fucking racist, she hates something about you that you can't change. Say she hates white middle class mums who talk about 'picky teas' and think 'snapped and farted' is the funniest thing ever. Now, you're ill in hospital and you see her standing at the foot of your bed, glaring at you. Still want her working there, now she's in control of the standard of care you receive?

Says a lot about you frankly.

Don't quite think that's fair on OP. Why shouldn't people have to face consequences for racism? Would you also disagree with a man facing consequences for being sexist? That woman says that on social media, which means she thinks it whilst she has a public facing job potentially dealing with BAME patients who may get subpar treatment from her because of her racist views. It's naive to not realise that.

Pinkie and it says a lot about you that you after to insult someone advocating standing up to racism.

We are all bystanders, all of us, its nit just about victims or perpetrators it's about bystanders and how they react.

I reported a teaching colleague for posting racist memes. She got a bolloxing from management. Its unequivocally wrong not IMO.

Definitely report. I've done it, racists deserve consequences. If a colleague spouted this nonsense I'd report aswell.

BinkyBoinky you’ve just totally rubbished Lockdownbreakdowns ( who is none white) point of view. What makes your point of view more important than hers? Do her lived experiences and thoughts not align with yours?

Don't quite think that's fair on OP. Why shouldn't people have to face consequences for racism

And if a crime has been committed - phone the police. It’s the police and the courts that dish out consequences not random people on facebook.

She would be in real trouble for that comment if you reported her. You seem as though you would be happy if she lost her job. Says a lot about you frankly.

So it wouldn’t be the racist’s fault for making the public posts in first place? It wouldn’t be her manager’s decision to sack her? Oh no - it would be totally down to the OP.

And if a crime has been committed - phone the police. It’s the police and the courts that dish out consequences not random people on facebook.

Why is it okay for a ‘random person on Facebook’ to call the police but not to email an employer?

Challenging racism is not totalitarian ffs. Do people on here even know the meaning of that word?

It's NEVER been OK to publically state racist opinions, this isn't a new thing. The fact people are so worried about being called out for it is really telling.

JingsMahBucket
Ex: the toppling of the statue in Bristol recently. Campaigners had been going at it with the city authorities for 30 fucking years. How much talking and kind education do you think went on during that time?

Quite a lacklustre campaign though in many ways:

Bristol Post October 2017;
"Police guard Colston Society annual church service held on Anti-Slavery Day. Five officers and PCSOs turned out to stop disruption of schoolchildren's event - but only two protesters turned up."

www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/police-guard-colston-society-annual-648611

This petition to remove Edward Colston's statue from Bristol City centre was reported in the Guardian - 12,000 signatures now - but just over a month ago it only had 50 signatures, 1 year ago 25 signatures, 2 years ago only 10 signatures;

you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/remove-the-edward-colston-statue-from-bristol-city-centre?bucket&source=facebook-share-button&time=1591119305&utm_campaign&utm_source=facebook&share=d20ed235-f13a-4959-a06a-fd99dd9d7e94&fbclid=IwAR20VPeTfcewycIMCIkFNPc_W2Sy9VVNbHncGA352K1KpEmppi-y7FUV7iA