Children camping alone in garden - AIBU

[UserA]

A close friend has asked if my dc, aged 10, 12 & 13 would like to camp in her garden (socially distanced of course!) with her dc, both aged 11 - but alone, with the parents sleeping in the house. Apparently her dc have done it a few times over lockdown. I was fairly surprised and I don’t think I’d feel comfortable with mine sleeping outside alone. We both have fairly large gardens which aren’t particularly enclosed, as in not backing onto other houses as such. Recently there have been some sexual assaults/flashing episodes in the area, which makes me even more uneasy.. dc obviously annoyed that I haven’t agreed! So, AIBU - would you agree to them camping out alone?

Parent in tent right between the kids, at the very least
How do you mean at the very least? What other precautions would be essential?
This is basically how normal camping holidays are - parent stays in tent with own children. That's it. (unless you have a dog, but they are not compulsory)

If there have been any sexual assaults in the area you'd have to be brainless to leave sleeping children outside. That aside I think everyone has a different tolerance for risk. The risk is very low but the impact is catastrophic. The chance of being struck by lightening is vanishing low but I still go inside when it starts. I wouldn't leave unattended children outside asleep. But I can respect that everyone is different.

I don't think that walking to the local shop is the same level of risk. When the grown ups are asleep in their house, they are leaving the kids unsupervised for hours on end. Different if they were in the tent next door, but I do think if they're indoors it, to me, would be a risk I wouldn't take.

That said, I wouldn't judge parents for allowing it or say children shouldn't do it. It is up to parents to evaluate the level of risk which is specific to their house, area, age of children etc.

Also, as has already been said, it isn't just the unlikely chance of a child killer being in your particular area at a given time, although, that risk is there and there are predatory "local weirdos" who do take an interest in children and if they are given the opportunity, they may take it. But it is also the lower risk things, which I still think, for me, would outweigh the benefits of letting them camp out unsupervised.

I used to be a Scout leader and I remember taking a group of boys about this age away for the weekend. One of them got homesick and a bit overwhelmed and we heard him getting out of his tent in the middle of the night, in the middle of nowhere, and wandering off. I don't know if he was sleepwalking or what, but anyway, we obviously spoke to him and made sure he was ok and got him back to his tent. If we hadn't been there, he might have wandered off into the woods and got lost. I know people will say "there are no woods in most people's gardens", but I still wouldn't want mine wandering off, even in our pretty safe area, in the middle of the night.

Some people will think differently and that's fine, but I don't think there is any "this is what your dcs must do or they will surely become emotionally broken by age 19". It is one of the many decisions parents have to make and I really don't think either view is invalid.

I do think some people on MN seem to think life is some Enid Blyton novel and I wonder if I live on another, much less sheltered, planet sometimes.

I remember the sophie hook case although was very young at the time. It made an impact on me so my min age for DC would be 13

I think it's more to do with the general parenting approach - and the degree of risk taking which children need to develop vs an over cautious approach towards parenting in terms of very low risks but with obviously horrific outcomes

I have a degree in developmental psychology and you cannot judge someone's entire parenting style based on whether they allow camping or not. There could be multiple reasons why someone might specifically not feel camping is safe. Plenty of people on this very thread have has scary experiences whilst camping, some lived in the same town as Sophie Hook etc etc. Many people have also said on this thread that they are pretty relaxed about lots of other stuff but simply dont feel comfortable with camping. That doesnt automatically indicate that they are over cautious or neurotic just like allowing your kids to camp out doesnt indicate you are neglectful of safety. Because if you are going to make generalisations, then you can do that both ways and neither will come out looking good.

There is also an underlying smuggery about camping that grinds my gears. Look how worthy and outdoorsy we are unlike all you screen obsessed chubsters.

I camped a lot as a child and teen but dh and both the kids don’t really like it (bar the odd night Dd2 slept in the sun tent in the garden which I now feel terrible about) whenever we’ve done it as a family no ones enjoyed it particularly but for some families it’s a real mark of their worthiness 🙄🙄

I used to let mine from around 10 but we have 6ft high gates to the garden and a dog who is very protective (herding dogs protect their flock)

@AlexisCarringtonColbyDexter

I think it's more to do with the general parenting approach - and the degree of risk taking which children need to develop vs an over cautious approach towards parenting in terms of very low risks but with obviously horrific outcomes

I have a degree in developmental psychology and you cannot judge someone's entire parenting style based on whether they allow camping or not. There could be multiple reasons why someone might specifically not feel camping is safe. Plenty of people on this very thread have has scary experiences whilst camping, some lived in the same town as Sophie Hook etc etc. Many people have also said on this thread that they are pretty relaxed about lots of other stuff but simply dont feel comfortable with camping. That doesnt automatically indicate that they are over cautious or neurotic just like allowing your kids to camp out doesnt indicate you are neglectful of safety. Because if you are going to make generalisations, then you can do that both ways and neither will come out looking good.

If someone just says no camping I agree, who knows the reasons.

But a lot of people are giving reasons and I would say reasons are going to reflect on their general thought processes.

If they say, my kid is unreliable and will galavant about the town, etc, that makes a lot of sense.

But most posters are referencing things like Sophie Hook - which is a rare rare event, like a child kidnapping. The statistical chance of being killed, assaulted, or kidnapped while sleeping in a back yard in most places is very tiny. While I am pretty sure most are also doing things like taking their child for a drive to go to a a lake or pool swimming, which is statistically quite risky for a child, and by risky I mean the risk of being killed.

It's one thing too to say, I know this is not really risky but it would make me feel anxious, and another to say it is actually risky. It speaks to a misunderstanding of what activities are risky. Which is an issue at the moment beyond just questions about camping.

Nope. I hadn’t heard of Sophie Hook but how utterly heart breaking reading the story. I just wouldn’t, maybe it is over cautious but I would rather be a neurotic then a bereaved parent.

But goose how many times do people have to go over the difference between the probability of something awful happening and the risks associated with that thing happening?

If I go out in a car and am in an accident, my child’s chances of survival are high. So even though the likelihood of that happening are higher than being abducted and murdered through camping, I’m happy to keep on doing that.

The likelihood of abduction and murder is very very low. I wholly accept that. But the risk factor is sky high - if it WERE to happen, to have to live with your child’s final terrified, agonised moments for the rest of your life, sometimes never to have answers about where they are or what happened to them, means the result is so horrific that I won’t apologise for not taking risks where it’s concerned.

Mine slept in a back garden with a low picket gate that a house elf could open without a ladder.. I would never say no to this type of activity and will be embracing it with my grandchildren...

Ladyprigsbottom- ah, so your first response to my post was just light hearted 'bants' which I've misconstrued

Mine slept in a back garden with a low picket gate that a house elf could open without a ladder.. I would never say no to this type of activity and will be embracing it with my grandchildren...

Such a cool grandmother. 🤣

@Macncheeseballs

Ladyprigsbottom- ah, so your first response to my post was just light hearted 'bants' which I've misconstrued

Yes! Did you miss the winky face? How on earth did you read it as anything other than bantz. Massive eyeroll.

@MsTSwift

There is also an underlying smuggery about camping that grinds my gears. Look how worthy and outdoorsy we are unlike all you screen obsessed chubsters.

I camped a lot as a child and teen but dh and both the kids don’t really like it (bar the odd night Dd2 slept in the sun tent in the garden which I now feel terrible about) whenever we’ve done it as a family no ones enjoyed it particularly but for some families it’s a real mark of their worthiness 🙄🙄

I mean...at first I thought this was a little harsh, but yes, there does seem to be an element of the 'hair shirt worthiness' about some people on here.

@Macncheeseballs, in case you don't recall, here is my initial comment to you:

Omg, I didn't know that not sleeping in a tent meant you had to sit indoors eating junk food all the time. No wonder I'm so fat then! It's the lack of sleeping in a tent what done it

To which you responded, confirming that "indeed", children sleeping in a tent would help combat the "obesity crisis". I think you are mistaken. I clearly can't (and don't seek to) change your mind on that score though. So keep on keeping on, happy camper! Best wishes for the future and all that. Byeeeeeee!!!

Screen obsessed chubbsters is my new favourite saying.

I was reading the OP thinking I would be fine with this, even if garden not enclosed until I read the bit about sexual assaults. So with that in mind, I'd say no. Maybe if they were a bit older, but is hard to say- an older child could easily be taught how to handle a flasher but a nastier kind of sex offender (what if they carried a weapon?) just telling them about saying NO, and stranger danger lectures aren't going to be enough.

However, if the garden were enclosed, I think I'd be fine with it.

@darkcaramel

But goose how many times do people have to go over the difference between the probability of something awful happening and the risks associated with that thing happening?

If I go out in a car and am in an accident, my child’s chances of survival are high. So even though the likelihood of that happening are higher than being abducted and murdered through camping, I’m happy to keep on doing that.

The likelihood of abduction and murder is very very low. I wholly accept that. But the risk factor is sky high - if it WERE to happen, to have to live with your child’s final terrified, agonised moments for the rest of your life, sometimes never to have answers about where they are or what happened to them, means the result is so horrific that I won’t apologise for not taking risks where it’s concerned.

No, people are not saying the chances of being in an accident is what is higher, it is the chance of being killed in an accident that is higher.Of all the things that kill children, it is near the top of the list.

The chance of being kidnapped by a stranger OTOH, is tiny, so small that isn't not really considered a risk factor at all. Your child is more likely to die of a heart attack, and as you know children having heart attacks is rare.

Your child's chance of being murdered by a stranger is also extremely tiny, much less than the chance of being killed while driving.

If you were really wanting to prevent the most risky events a child faces you would never take a car trip that wasn't important - anything recreational for example, would be too risky.

Being a parent is full of anxieties. We all have to make decisions based on what we know and what we feel.
I grew up camping a lot, it was a big part of my childhood as we only ever had camping holidays and I loved camping in the garden, a lot of happy memories come from these experiences. For this reason I let my children camp in the garden, I encourage and suggest it. I have personally weighed up the risk verses benefit and decided garden camping is something my kids can do.
On the other hand there are things that I perceive as an unnecessary risk that many others would disagree with. One of these is having a dog. I didn’t grow up with dogs and am not a dog person. At least once a year you hear of a child being killed or severely injured by a family dog. I’ve weighed up the risk verses benefit and made my decision. This isn’t me casting any judgement on anyone who decides to have a dog, I also understand they can be really lovely and a massive benefit for children. Just for me it’s not worth the risk.
Soooo, I guess I’m just trying to make the point that everyone makes their own decisions for their families based on their preferences and their life experiences.

I think people are focussing on the murder element as the only thing that could happen to children alone in a tent all night. Yes these are thankfully rare.

But over the years there have probably been umpteen sexual or violent attacks, which would barely make the local news for a day or so but would be very devastating to the young victims. I think we all think we hear about absolutely everything that happens or goes on everywhere, but we really don't and that could lead us into a false sense of security.

We let dd (and friends) camp in the garden from when she was about 8 but she was already a seasoned camper. I think at your children's ages I wouldn't even think of saying no.

I mean it's 25 years ago but we did this all the time as kids. We were super rural (no near neighbours) so maybe that's why my parents were okay with it?! You wouldn't have caught either of them joining us.

darkcaramel I wasn't suggesting anything other than the kids wouldn't all be able to share one tent because the OP mentioned social distancing? But as there appears to be two families, one with two children and one with three, no child would actually be sleeping in a tent alone?

What on earth did you imagine I was suggesting?

I wasn't aware of the Sophie Hook case.

Utterly heartbreaking to read about what happened.

Hopefully he'll suffer in prison.

Yes I would let mine camp out at that age. Like one of the posters mentioned I would give them a whistle for emergencies.
However with the flasher in the area , I would probably suggest waiting till he’s caught.
I had never heard of Sophie Hook . A quick google search told the tragic story but it wouldn’t stop me from letting my kids camp out now ( apart from the flasher).