to hate what Brexiters have done

[mrsmootoo]

I know this has been done before, but knowing that we are now likely on course for a No Deal Brexit in the midst of a pandemic I am so angry and upset about what Brexiters voted for. I'll forgive any who were conned and now think better of it, but I cannot get over the loss of Freedom of Movement to live and work in the EU - not so much for me, but for my children - and the way the UK is sliding in international standing economically and in attracting doctors, nurses, scientists etc. (I know from before that Leavers don't care what I think, but just had to post).

One little thing. Are we supposed to be "attracting doctors and nurses"? I know we had a nice little scam going where poorer nations would train them and we'd take them for free to save training our own. Surely no one thought we'd get away with that forever?

cooliebrown consider the possibility that we'll get a better deal in the long run by being willing to leave without one.

When buying a car/house do you say right off that you love it and would be willing to pay even more for it or do you say "I don't like it, it leaks and is too high a price for me"

That depends on our lot handling it right and I can't guarantee that, but the principle is as old as civilisation.

Oh for gods sake shut up, we have left. Get over it, find a way to make it work for you now, they can still visit, if they want to work there I am sure it will be possible

We are in the middle of a world wide pandemic and all you can think about is bloody Brexit and what it’s dint to your children, yet we don’t Sven know of it will affect them do we

SHUTvUP

Are people still going in about this now
I mean really you have no idea why some voted for brexit and just because it wasnt your choice doesnt mean they were wrong and you are right
Get over it ,accept its happening and move on

I sympathize with some of the reasons for Leave. But whatever the ideological or philosophical rights and wrongs of a powerful supranational organization like the EU being able to assert a (rather small) level of control or influence of over a sovereign state, leaving it will mean that most of us are financially worse off.

£2000 a month and having to put up with a few “unelected bureaucrats tosspots in Brussels” is preferable to £1500 and all power with the tosspots at Westminster. I expect on those terms 90% would have voted Remain. Well, that’s basically the reality. A few will get relatively better off. The vast majority will now be relatively worse off compared to the rest of the world.

@darkcaramel

Oh I think most people realised that, serendipity. But this is where class does come into play. If you are working class and work as a dinner lady while your husband is a factory worker, you won’t ever be moving to Provence. It just isn’t a big deal to many people.

Firstly there are people from all 'classes' and walks of life who have retired to EU countries, eg Spain if not Provence. Secondly, fine if it's not a big deal for them. It is for me, and Brexiters have taken away some of my rights.

Agree with you op.

@LastTrainEast

One little thing. Are we supposed to be "attracting doctors and nurses"? I know we had a nice little scam going where poorer nations would train them and we'd take them for free to save training our own. Surely no one thought we'd get away with that forever?

Agreed about skilled workers, but under the new points system won't they still be welcomed, so we'll continue to scam poorer countries. Secondly it turns out we can't even pick our own fruit without EU workers. Fancy that.

The EU will collapse in the next few years. I guarantee it

Moreover, if the populace was in possession of all the facts and had decided to leave the EU, I would have supported it 100%.
(No, we aren’t going to be “better off”. We have scarcely left and Brexit has already cost more than decades of EU membership. No, China and the US aren’t going to give us better terms than the 26 nation EU)
But the amount of misinformation was phenomenal and the risks of leaving severely underplayed.

This poll from a few days ago shows 35% support Brexit. 57% would vote to Remain.
www.businessinsider.com/brexit-poll-most-british-people-want-to-rejoin-eu-2020-6?r=US&IR=T

That, to me, shows without doubt that many voted in bad faith. Johnson /Farage etc have a lot to answer for.

Firstly there are people from all 'classes' and walks of life who have retired to EU countries, eg Spain if not Provence. Secondly, fine if it's not a big deal for them. It is for me, and Brexiters have taken away some of my rights

Are you honestly saying you won’t be able to live in an EU country? Are you thick?

@heyheyho
Support for the EU among the 26 has never been stronger
See that link above. Britain, however, may collapse in a few years. Quite literally, as Scotland and N.Ireland have been pulled out against the wishes of the majority in those member countries of the UK. A few years back, Scotland was told to “vote NO” to Scottish independence in order to remain in the EU.

I know someone who voted for Boris because blue is her favourite colour.

Don't joke about that, there will be someone out there who did that.

@heyheyho
“Are you honestly saying you won’t be able to live in an EU country? Are you thick?“
I think the poster you are referring to was speaking particularly of retirement. Brexit will make this vastly more difficult for people with average savings/pension. Btw, I suggest you try to communicate your point without personal insults. Aside from being extremely rude, it tends to weaken an argument rather than strengthen it.

But the tide is turning, around 55% vs 37% want to stay in the EU now

Too bloody late. No point in people changing their minds now we’re fucked.

I know we had a nice little scam going where poorer nations would train them and we'd take them for free to save training our own. Surely no one thought we'd get away with that forever?

The Philippines, from where a huge number of immigrant nurses arrive here, trains far more nurses than it needs specifically to export them. Their wages support their families back home. Equally we pay to train doctors and nurses who then emigrate to Australia and N Zealand and we even write off their student debt when they go. What a great scam that is.

"Being able to live and work in other countries (anywhere, not just the EU) is still possible, just as it always has been. The process will be different now, but comparable to other independent countries".

"Are you honestly saying you won’t be able to live in an EU country? "

Well objectively there is a chance individual countries will make it more difficult (e.g. by creating Visa and/or financial requirements) than is currently the case.

There is also the issue that the loss of reciprocal rights (e.g. Healthcare, amongst other things) will make such a move a more expensive proposition than it is now and I do wonder if we will go back to the situation where moving to the Med will become something done by the well heeled, rather than the mere mortals amongst us..

The situation with regard to right to residency will certainly change radically wef 1 Jan 2021 for anybody from the UK not resident in the EU26 by that date. ..it would be highly naive to think otherwise...

"Being able to live and work in other countries (anywhere, not just the EU) is still possible, just as it always has been. The process will be different now, but comparable to other independent countries".

"Are you honestly saying you won’t be able to live in an EU country? "

Well objectively there is a chance individual countries will make it more difficult (e.g. by creating Visa and/or financial requirements) than is currently the case.

There is also the issue that the loss of reciprocal rights (e.g. Healthcare, amongst other things) will make such a move a more expensive proposition than it is now and I do wonder if we will go back to the situation where moving to the Med will become something done by the well heeled, rather than the mere mortals amongst us..

The situation with regard to right to residency will certainly change radically wef 1 Jan 2021 for anybody from the UK not resident in the EU26 by that date. ..it would be highly naive to think otherwise...

Still waiting for a single Brexit voter to outline a single tangible benefit to leaving the EU. I’ve been asking for 4 years and not had a single coherent response from any of them.

The fact that they still either have no idea what a disaster this is going to be or don’t care about it makes me sad and angry in equal measure.

Oh...and when are we going to see the Russian report so that we can know exactly how much Putin involved himself in our referendum?

• "Being able to live and work in other countries (anywhere, not just the EU) is still possible, just as it always has been. The process will be different now, but comparable to other independent countries".

"Are you honestly saying you won’t be able to live in an EU country? "*

It’s not just those wanting to retire to the sun that are impacted. The problem is that most U.K. citizens resident in the EU are of working age and therefore there are a whole other raft of considerations and issues caused by becoming a third country national.

For instance, where I live UK citizens resident and working have been given the same rights to carry in doing so as locals or other EU citizens, asking as they remain living here. Which is fine if you are certain you want to stay here for the rest of your life. Not fine if you want to retire elsewhere in the EU; if a job opportunity comes up in another EU country there is no right of onward movement (if you even get offered a job, in my line of work UK only citizens have not even been getting interviews, even for senior level jobs); if you work between 3 different countries like a friend of mine and your job depends on free movement you are completely in the shit.

Many people have EU spouses or partners so moving back to the UK, even if they wanted to, will be problematic. Not everyone will want to get married either to secure the right of onward movement in order to uproot to another country, why should they be forced to do so?

@ChazP

Still waiting for a single Brexit voter to outline a single tangible benefit to leaving the EU. I’ve been asking for 4 years and not had a single coherent response from any of them.

The fact that they still either have no idea what a disaster this is going to be or don’t care about it makes me sad and angry in equal measure.

Oh...and when are we going to see the Russian report so that we can know exactly how much Putin involved himself in our referendum?

You could probably go and look into this yourself. Do some research. You don’t need to wait for someone to come along and explain it to you to gain that understanding. Other people don’t OWE you an explanation of anything.

I’ve noticed that when someone posts asking for an explanation of the BLM movement they are told to go and find out for themselves. The same attitude applies to most things. Including Brexit.

It’s not hard. And it’s a bit arrogant.

It’s not just those wanting to retire to the sun that are impacted. The problem is that most U.K. citizens resident in the EU are of working age and therefore there are a whole other raft of considerations and issues caused by becoming a third country national.

Absolutely correct - it has implications for those of us living in the "EU26" of working age (myself) and has already had an impact on my family (also of working age).

(Apologies for the double post upthread - shakey internet connection)

I was hoping to retire to Italy in my mid 50's. Brexit put a stop to that.

But none of those things (ID system, contributory benefits etc) could be done without massive costs and disruption.
But ironically not as much disruption and cost as Brexit is costing us - we haven't even properly left yet and we have thrown away the equivalent of roughly 30 years of contributions. It is now widely accepted that financially it cannot be a success.

If I could leave permanently the country without abandoning my ageing parents, I would.

I hate the xenophobic little country we've become. The irony of those 'you like Europe so much, why don't you piss off there!' comments is that now myself and my kids will find it incredibly hard to bugger off and live in another country.

I feel exactly the same. I’m dreading 2021.

It’s complete rubbish to say that only middle-class people emigrate. I moved to another EU country when I was an unemployed 19-year-old and got a job in a warehouse. I stayed for 18 months and met loads of fellow Brits who were doing the same thing. None of them were rich, in fact some of them lived on a campsite during the summer months to save money.

Also, I don’t believe for a moment that the post-Brexit US-UK trade deal will turn out well for the UK. We’re negotiating from a weak position and we’re going to get royally shafted. And as the Tories have a decent majority, there’s little anyone can do to prevent this. It’s too late.