to hate what Brexiters have done

[mrsmootoo]

I know this has been done before, but knowing that we are now likely on course for a No Deal Brexit in the midst of a pandemic I am so angry and upset about what Brexiters voted for. I'll forgive any who were conned and now think better of it, but I cannot get over the loss of Freedom of Movement to live and work in the EU - not so much for me, but for my children - and the way the UK is sliding in international standing economically and in attracting doctors, nurses, scientists etc. (I know from before that Leavers don't care what I think, but just had to post).

@strugglingwithdeciding
You have no idea how brexit will affect us
Well, I have some idea. It doesn't involve the magical thinking so beloved of Brexiteers though. I'm not that imaginative.

do you have links ? Thought not
Well, you could just google but here's one for a start - btw do you have any recent links of Brexiteers saying it is going to be a financial success? Thought not. You see that all stopped saying that a couple of years ago when it became clear what a shitshow this is.

www.theguardian.com/politics/shortcuts/2018/jul/24/two-50-or-100-years-when-do-leavers-think-brexit-will-pay-off

It will be difficult to separate the effects of Brexit from those of Covid, but clearly the Brexit process has left us utterly broken as a society and we face an enormous challenge in rebuilding post COVID and post no deal Brexit. We face huge economic problems, a divided society, racial tensions and the longer term threat of climate change. I cannot imagine being a young person trying to start out in the world right now.

@Itinerary

YABU.

Being able to live and work in other countries (anywhere, not just the EU) is still possible, just as it always has been. The process will be different now, but comparable to other independent countries.

The UK is overpopulated, with several times what the sustainable population (about 17 million) would be. As an independent country we can still choose to open our doors to genuine refugees, medical professionals and anyone else. But these decisions will be ours to make independently.

The economy and industry are adapting well and confidence is building, The EU's economy certainly isn't perfect. Certainly the way they've treated countries such as Greece who've fallen on hard times (after persuading them to join the EU with assurances about how any burdens would be shared etc) are questionable.

I understand you feel angry, bitter and unforgiving. I'm sad to hear this, but Brexit voters chose what they genuinely felt best. We've left the EU, are coming to the end of the transition and now its time to move forward.

Beautiful said😃

@Itinerary I mean beautifully said!!

@Goinghometocallie

This has been done to death. Stop droning on about it. Do you handle all things that don’t go your way with such despair? I’d rather read about corona that brexit and that’s saying something. Don’t you have a husband or a friend to go over this with?

You don't have to engage! Brexit will have a huge impact on the whole of the UK, especially combined with Covid fall out. It's not like a normal party political split where we have one party for a few years and then vote differently. This is a generation change. I do talk about this with friends and family, but am also interested in opinions in a wider forum.

I don’t think you understand the issues that led people to vote for Brexit over and over again in the space of a few years.

@Finerumpus What do you mean by 'over and over again'?

17 million

17 million, is that the optimum population?
no wonder the place seems so claustrophobic

I hate it too OP, but nothing we can do now. Just have to hope it's not a complete shit show. I imagine most of the fallout will be blamed on Covid anyway.

YANBU.

We're reaching Trump levels of being incompetent but yelling that we're great as a country.

Btw, I suggest you try to communicate your point without personal insults. Aside from being extremely rude, it tends to weaken an argument rather than strengthen it.

Cam77 you’ve obviously not spent much time on Brexit threads - every page has several references to how thick leavers are.
Or maybe you don’t object when it’s leavers who are called thick.

17 million population? I don’t think the population of England has been that low since the 1850s or thereabouts, and only England I think? Maybe that’s the period the Brexiters hark back to? All those upright victorians and poor people knowing their place!

Is that you Jacob Rees Smug?

@Andante77
Why would you assume I'm okay with rudeness from people who happen to agree with me on a certain point. That is a very strange assumption. For the record - I dislike personal attacks fullstop. Saying "thats a strange/bad argument" is fine. Saying "you're thick/stupid/traitor" etc is not fine.

*Melassa8
As you're the latest person to post this I'll ask you.
Could you tell me when leave voters changed from being thick racist Northern poor people and became thick racist southern rich people.
Do you have any idea why this change came about?

The UK is overpopulated, with several times what the sustainable population (about 17 million) would be. As an independent country we can still choose to open our doors to genuine refugees, medical professionals and anyone else. But these decisions will be ours to make independently.

And the first decision was to invite 3m people from Hong Kong to live here. So the "overpopulated" claim is clearly a crock.

I wonder what else was too ?

Wow. The UK has effectively just offered virtual no strings citizenship to 3 million HK citizens + spouses/dependent children! Given the historical closeness between HK and the UK and the current state of HK, I would not be a bit surprised if 500,000+ Hong Kongers take up the offer in the next year or two. Have to admit, I didn't expect that from the Tories. Yep, you'd better Build, Build, Build.

One little thing. Are we supposed to be "attracting doctors and nurses"? I know we had a nice little scam going where poorer nations would train them and we'd take them for free to save training our own. Surely no one thought we'd get away with that forever?

What about the nice little scam where we train, doctors, nurses, teachers, paramedics, engineers etc. Who then up sticks and move to Canada, US, Australia, NZ etc..

Some people will always move to try and do better for them selves and their families.

[quote Cam77]@Andante77
Why would you assume I'm okay with rudeness from people who happen to agree with me on a certain point. That is a very strange assumption. For the record - I dislike personal attacks fullstop. Saying "thats a strange/bad argument" is fine. Saying "you're thick/stupid/traitor" etc is not fine.[/quote]
Ok, but you haven’t criticised the poster who wrote;
I really wish these "aspirational" read wannabe wealthy wankers that voted to leave had drunk their proverbial koolaid before their communal pissing inthe water supply of the UK

That comment seems pretty rude to me.

It's easy to get EU citizenship. Just buy a Maltese passport. A snip at $1.3 million.

I think many of those who voted Leave did not expect Leave to win, but wanted to protest, and perhaps hope a close run thing would mean that the Uk would not support things such as new members.

The worst thing that has come about because of the Leave vote is that we now have Mr Johnson as prime minister. Someone who has no respect for women judging by his private life, a part-time prime minister, and a man whose inaction in early March has led to thousands more deaths than would have happened under another Tory leader.

cam
yeah, bloody depressing isn't it.
There won't be any green space at this rate.
Glad you're coming round to a realistic viewpoint

@Cam77

Wow. The UK has effectively just offered virtual no strings citizenship to 3 million HK citizens + spouses/dependent children! Given the historical closeness between HK and the UK and the current state of HK, I would not be a bit surprised if 500,000+ Hong Kongers take up the offer in the next year or two. Have to admit, I didn't expect that from the Tories. Yep, you'd better Build, Build, Build.

Don't worry, it's not like they'll be avoiding any checks on criminality, income, wealth, health or skills is it ?

I wonder what %age of HK folk are criminals ? Guess we'll find out soon enough. They'll probably be the first out of there. After all, you really wouldn't want to be a criminal with Chinese laws. Much softer safer in the UK.

@hashtagbollocks I have no idea. I suspect there was some guilt at having blamed the poor northerners when in fact many wealthy pensioners in the Home Counties also voted Leave, possibly more so than the northerners. My Dad is fairly well off, terribly middle class and not from up north and he certainly did.

He is unabashedly racist however and (anecdata alert) not educated beyond o level. He also still believes German carmakers will save the day

melassa so the "fact" that leave voters were Northern and poor got changed by a section of society as now being Southern and rich because remainers felt guilty about slagging off one whole area of the population?
So, nothing to do with facts?
Just a kind of condescending guilt?
Interesting

The response to the floods (remember them?); the Brexit agreement (that Boris had explicitly previously rejected); the response to Covid; Boris’ own illness (which was partly his failing to follow his own advice); Patel’s bullying; the Cumming’s fiasco; Jenrick’s cash for planning... have I left anything out?and this is just the first six months of this government. Buckle up folks it’s gonna be a bumpy few years.