to hate what Brexiters have done

[mrsmootoo]

I know this has been done before, but knowing that we are now likely on course for a No Deal Brexit in the midst of a pandemic I am so angry and upset about what Brexiters voted for. I'll forgive any who were conned and now think better of it, but I cannot get over the loss of Freedom of Movement to live and work in the EU - not so much for me, but for my children - and the way the UK is sliding in international standing economically and in attracting doctors, nurses, scientists etc. (I know from before that Leavers don't care what I think, but just had to post).

That isn’t true. He’s less popular than Starmer now and more than two thirds think he’s done a terrible job with Covid.

I saw a Sky poll (last week) that had Tories ahead of Labour and 52% thought Johnson had done a good job (down from 72%)

Yes Starmer well ahead of Johnson.

Apologies if these are out of date.

I saw a Sky poll (last week) that had Tories ahead of Labour and 52% thought Johnson had done a good job (down from 72%)

Where was this poll conducted? - because I'll bet you it wasn't conducted in Scotland where both of them are about as popular as crab lice.

I have no idea why we are still arguing about this because Brexit is done, thank goodness. There will be no extension to the Transition Period so we should be completely done with the EU by the end of the year.
I voted Leave because I don't think the ECJ should have any jurisdiction here. Our own judicial system is excellent.
I am delighted that David Frost is standing up to the EU in a way that Ollie Robbins didn't. But he was a Remainer.
I realise that others have different opinions but that is good. Surely we can agree to disagree

@yellowspanner

I have no idea why we are still arguing about this because Brexit is done, thank goodness. There will be no extension to the Transition Period so we should be completely done with the EU by the end of the year. I voted Leave because I don't think the ECJ should have any jurisdiction here. Our own judicial system is excellent. I am delighted that David Frost is standing up to the EU in a way that Ollie Robbins didn't. But he was a Remainer. I realise that others have different opinions but that is good. Surely we can agree to disagree

No one - literally no one - is arguing you didn't win.

What people are "arguing" over is where all those benefits of Brexit appear to be hiding. You know. The plethora of trade deals that would need pens that can sign 100 documents at once for fear of overwhelming our negotiators.

The queue of the countries around the world that were supposed to be beating a path to the UK to secure the very best we have to offer.

Where is all that.

Plus the £350 million a week to the NHS. Where's that ?

Instead, a school trip from Belgium buys an extra pack of gift rubbers from the Buckingham Palace gift shop, and it's a triumph for Brexit ?

The only - only - way Brexiteers will ever shut remainers up is to come good on all the promises they made before the referendum. Telling us what good promises they were won't do. Nor will pointing somewhere else to tell us how bad it is.

Maybe I missed it (and this is an ideal forum to draw my attention to it) but not a single exchange between the EU and UK after the referendum has shown the UK holds any cards at all.

No one - literally no one - is arguing you didn't win.

What people are "arguing" over is where all those benefits of Brexit appear to be hiding.

This.

Though I don't think arguing is the right word. "Demanding to know" would be better. You (Brexiteers) sold us this pile of shit - now when is it going to jump through all the hoops and perform the miracles your shyster conmen snake oil salesmen said it would?

You (Brexiteers) sold us this pile of shit

I think you've got that the wrong way around a bit.

Remain voters didn't buy the pile of shit, Leave voters did. Leave voters took away the good things we had and forced us to share the shit they bought and are still insisting it's a silk purse and we should be grateful.

Leave voters can own what they did and all the consequences.
If the sunlit uplands are delivered I will apologise. No sign of them yet though.

If the sunlit uplands are delivered I will apologise. No sign of them yet though.

Blue passport, surely ?

Its black :)

@darkcaramel

Lol indeed. I know someone who voted for Boris because blue is her favourite colour. Lol. So you see people who voted for the conservatives are thick, lol. That’s why they got in, lol, so really we are better doing away with democracy. Otherwise, thick people like my fictitious friend and people on Twitter vote, and we can’t have that, can we! We know better, don’t we? Lol.

How spiteful! Do you have fictitious friends? I bet you do. Lol.

@mrsmootoo - I agree with you, anyone with any ounce of intelligence knows that getting the masses to vote Conservative is the biggest trick in the book. They don't give a shit about ordinary working families but somehow they've pulled it off. We're fucked.

I think you've got that the wrong way around a bit.

You're right. You and I didn't buy it. But lots of people did.

Change that to "You (Brexiteers) sold this pile of shit"

It's not black, it's a very very dark navy, as the old one was. But it's made in France or Poland. Why is it not made in Britain, I want to know.

@Peregrina

It's not black, it's a very very dark navy, as the old one was. But it's made in France or Poland. Why is it not made in Britain, I want to know.

Which is ironic, since not a single Brexiteer wants to.

Germany, the Netherlands and the other north European nations are not willing to fund the Mediterranean nation's party

This is not entirely true. The Netherlands doesn't want a setup where we are respondible for loans taken out by other countries. We proposed either a large gift or that they take a loan out of the existing pot, which they would have to pay back in time. We do want to help the people, but not to the future detriment of ourselves since the countries in trouble didn't listen to proposed economic reforms last time.

Simply said, they can't take out a mortgage on a house and make us responsible for it. We would however lend them from existing money or gift some of it. Apparantly this isn't good enough. They need to stop being cheeky fuckers.

As an EU citizen I read so many remainers are sorry because FOM will go, but I wonder if they would still want to remain if the UK stopped getting the preferential treatment and remaining would have meant going all in, like adopting the euro et cetera. I'd love to hear how you think about that?

Why is it not made in Britain, I want to know

Wasn’t it because it would be more expensive?

The EC has a fragile economy because, of 27 member countries, fewer than half pay in money; the rest are using those contributions to develop. Brexit means that the second largest contributor to EU funding will stop paying contributions.

From all the things that I have read about brexit in my country, the amount that the UK paid was never a worry for us. Never discussed even. We worried about delivery times, extra costs because of prolonged delivery, extra costs for customs clearance while we stayed uncertain if brexit would go ahead or not. That was a lot of money already spent in preparation (in NL calculated to be 400 euro per person per year) while the UK spent YEARS postponing if they were going to do a hard brexit or not. That felt unfair to us as people tbh. I don't think the contribution was ever a worry, we will shoulder it across the still participating nations. It's easier to shoulder costs across many countries. And some of us are economically not bad off. But I do think that the UK could have made a quicker decision instead of keeping fighting about the election result and frustrating the negotiations.

The new UK passport was designed by the Franco/Dutch company Gemalto and made in Poland. The UK competitor for the production of the passport, De La Rue, lost the bid to make it last year, which led to a reported loss of up to 170 jobs in the UK. Gemalto will continue to hold a contract to make UK passports for 10 years.

I thought we were supposed to be taking back control?

As an EU citizen I read so many remainers are sorry because FOM will go, but I wonder if they would still want to remain if the UK stopped getting the preferential treatment and remaining would have meant going all in, like adopting the euro et cetera. I'd love to hear how you think about that?

I don't suppose it matters now ? If we re-join at some point in the future then we will invariably be negotiating our new membership from a different place. Personally I would have still voted remain.

Well if the £ falls to parity with the Euro or below, I don't suppose we will mind at that much.

As I have posted many times before, I flipflopped back and forth endlessly before casting my Leave vote, and it was very narrow on the day, tipped over by my son's view. But while the goals of the EU are admirable, the news management is avoiding some important information. DG, the largest bank in the EU, is technically nearly insolvent on Basel II capital adequacy ratios, and so are other major continental banks. If the City exercises its rules, then they cannot access London financial markets. London Forex and lending is dominates the market: the Euromarket (borrowing in foreign currency for investment purposes and raising capital) is largely what the City does. It sounds like a toothless tiger but the global debt market is savage.

@frumpety, Gordon Brown to his lasting credit, refused to join the Euro.

Why is it to his credit?

Germany has done very well since adopting the euro, Sterling is only going one way, it belongs in the past.

The euro is only 2nd behind the $ in terms of currency trading and the UK in it, would make it stronger still, plus had we been in, Brexit wouldn't have happened.

However, the mistake was to allow weak countries to adopt the euro.

I read so many remainers are sorry because FOM will go, but I wonder if they would still want to remain if the UK stopped getting the preferential treatment and remaining would have meant going all in, like adopting the euro et cetera. I'd love to hear how you think about that?

But that was never ever on the cards, the UK was a very powerful member of the EU and had opt outs to keep the so called preferential rules.
A better negotiator than Cameron would have got far better terms on EU migration too but he was weak, couldn't even stand up to the ERG/Ukip and then like all weak men, ran away.

@XingMing

Did the peace in Northern Ireland ever a consideration?