So angry at brother

[Partychaos]

My brother was furloughed in March at 80% of his wage. SIL is working as normal (3 days a week) her work is hugely busy at the moment due to staff being off for childcare/self isolating/shielding and they are crying out for overtime. Brother is at home with 3 kids home schooling.

Brother messaged me in April to ask to borrow some money very apologetic didn’t budget well didn’t realize what a difference it would make to only get 80%. I said of course no problem I understand times are tough. Sent over £250.
May we were talking and he said both older kids needed new trainers and my niece had a growth spurt and he didn’t know what to do. I sorted through some of dd’s clothes and left a huge bin bag of summer clothes for them, I spoke to the kids and we chose the trainers together and I got them delivered to their house. A week later a message saying he didn’t know how he was going to afford the food shopping and he can’t believe how quickly they are going through food- yeah same mate. But I sent over £150.

June -again I’m so sorry to ask but can I borrow £300 I’ve got an unexpected bill I don’t know what to do. Don’t tell SIL I’ve asked. I asked why it was a secret because if I had a bill the person I would be telling is my spouse not my sibling. He said she would feel awkward about borrowing money but he doesn’t know what to do. I talked to dh and he agreed we could send £200 but £300 was too much of a stretch. Sent it over.

I’ve just spoken to my dad who is retired and surviving on state pension, he has nothing to his name and lives month to month. I often need to put extra electric and gas on for him or do a weeks shop. My brother has asked him for the other £100. I’m raging. My dad transferred everything from his account about £80 and has literally about £3 in his pocket. I asked why he said yes and he was upset thinking of his grandkids without food. I asked what he was going to do about food and he said oh I’ll manage It’ll be fine.
I’ve transferred £100 to my dad and have a food shop coming next week with my supermarket delivery.

I know times are tough but surely if your spouse is at home and you only work part time you would picking up all of the overtime possible (office job and social distancing in place so not high risk) Or you would apply for a mortgage holiday, or an overdraft, or a credit card. I don’t know their financial situation eg if they already have debt or what their credit scores are but surely you would look into things like food bank referrals before asking an elderly man for money.

Dh thinks I’m being unreasonable to be so angry that he asked my dad and that he had the ability to say no if he didn’t have it. I think he should have known that my dad would have given him his last for the kids who he adores and he knew that and kind of exploited it.
I’m having wine and I’m not talking to him tonight but I intend to confront him before I do am I being unreasonable to be so pissed off at him?

I want to know who the 2% who have voted YABU are and why.

I think even without there being a gambling problem, asking family members for money is a bloody cheak. I certainly don’t have much and I would never ask mine for money. If he doesn’t have any money then go out and pick fruit perhaps?

I would tell your dad not to give him any more before checking with you first whether you’ve given him any, that way it doesn’t look as if you’re trying to control your parent iyswim.

Then I would tell your brother in no uncertain terms what I think of him, and I would also tell him that you’ve told your SIL even if you haven’t. Then I would text her while he’s on his way home.

I want to know who the 2% who have voted YABU are and why.

People who have the same approach to money as OP's brother and don't want to recognise that they are being dicks, I imagine

He doesn't need this because of a 20% pay drop. Something else is going on which you need to find out what it it

We’ve had pay drops but not spending like normal. There’s something going on here.

@Iwalkinmyclothing

I want to know who the 2% who have voted YABU are and why.

People who have the same approach to money as OP's brother and don't want to recognise that they are being dicks, I imagine

Yes, the ones who say family should support family, but it's always a one way street into their pocket.

If you've got a memo facility on your phone use it to record what he says that way you can listen back to it at your own pace and come to your own conclusions useful if you need to share with sister in law

Your brother is a waste of space, to ask your dad when he is struggling himself is ridiculous. That being said you are not a bank either get used to saying no or hand it over without resentment. He needs to work out his own finances and you are not responsible for his family. If you are 20% down on wages you budget accordingly eg. choose a cheaper supermarket, buy cheaper food, shop in sales only, buy unbranded trainers, basically cut back.

Also why does he not want you to tell your sil? I think she probably has no idea he is free loading off you. It sounds like he may be gambling or has lost his job? I would tell her. He needs to grow up.

Honestly I would talk to your SIL.

I hope you read him the riot act, asked for the money from your Dad back as you've now effectively paid for it, and told him that you expect every penny back or you will be going straight to SIL... and suggesting that she dig around to find out where his money is going.

And in the meantime, he can start selling things like fucking headsets instead of mooching off family members.

I agree that something is going on here.

So it’s not gambling or drugs he’s just absolutely shit with money.
He came over all very apologetic “I know I’m the worst brother blah blah blah” I said I didn’t want his apologies I wanted to know what was going on.
He made many excuses about the cost of food shopping and that he didn’t realize how much of a drop it would be on his wage. I lost my temper when he said instead of taking a refund for their holiday they have rescheduled it for it next year and transferred the balance. I asked why the fuck he would do that if they are struggling for money right now. He berated on about how hard it has been for the kids and they deserve a treat. My kids deserve a treat too they have been stuck in the house for 3 months with me because I’m shielding. The £600 I’ve lent him could have paid for my kids to go on a caravan holiday later in the year.

I told him I didn’t believe him that it’s all going on food and bills and made him log into his online banking. The Lloyds app gives a breakdown of what is being spent on what. He has been spending an obscene amount of money on games and apps for the kids. £173 on apple- asked what that was for. Roblox for the middle kid.
£160 in app purchases on Minecraft for the eldest to buy ‘new skins’.
£270 on a weeks food shop. Turns out it’s because he is buying shit like lunchables and dairy lee dunkers and branded stuff like peppa pig cookies at £2 each because the kids will like them.

They have a shit load of debt on credit cards which has mounted up because they only pay the minimum balance. They are paying through the nose for car and home insurance as they just let it renew each year (I work in insurance I could easily get the payments down by at least 50% but they’ve just never bothered)
He doesn’t want SIL to know he’s borrowing money because they are arguing all the time over the state of the house and how little school work the kids are doing and money already and he didn’t want her to create another argument. Like I’ve mentioned previously it is not a happy marriage.

I’ve told him I’m not prepared to give him any more money when he is spending money hand over fist to be a Disney dad so the kids are happy and give him 5 minutes peace. Told him to actually parent his kids and say no to them. If he stopped letting them play on screens all day (middle kid was up until midnight finishing a level last night) they would get more school work done and wouldn’t be spending such an obscene amount of money.
Told him how horrified I am that he asked our dad for money. Clarified that he felt it was acceptable to leave him with enough money to buy a loaf of bread for a weeks food just so he could spunk money up the wall. He cried and felt awful and tried to make the excuse of he could have said no. I was brutal and I’m glad I was. He deserves to feel guilty and ashamed. They have brought this on themselves no one else.

Sounds like a gambling problem. He came back to you for cash after you'd delivered clothes instead of the cash he was hinting for.

This also popped out at me @Flavia

I'm really angry with your brother OP. Even before I got to the part about your dad.

People on furlough have had to manage. There are millions of them and they're not all hitting their sisters up for £300 every month.

As other posters have said the 80% isn't so bad when you take work expenses away.

But that's all bye the bye. He's had time to get his shit together and cut his cloth etc - and he hasn't. He's lying to his wife and quite possibly lying to you.

I hope you get the truth OP. I've no rush to kick someone when they're down, but taking advantage of others' kindness makes me angry.

He sounds lazy and irresponsible, can't be bothered to think and plan and do things properly, instead he haphazardly does whatever seems like a good idea in the moment and then expects other people to pay for his multiple mistakes.
crying is just another way to wriggle out of his responsibilities, crocodile tears🙄 he needs to do basic maths and take some responsibility

Well done, he needed to be told

If he is telling you not to tell his wife... SURELY something dodgy is going on. Tell your sil! Get to the bottom of it. Tell her.... to help him

Holy smoke that's a great update - really profoundly satisfying to read. You didn't namby pamby around, but told him straight. What a mess he's in. Stupid sod.

You handled it well, OP, and it may be no bad thing that his utter fecklessness had been brought into the light. It was predictable that he'd snivel and whine, but hopefully (maybe with help from debt advisers and so on?) he might address turning this round

I wouldn't have very high hopes TBH, but just so long as you meant it about not giving him any more ... because people like this can be ingenious in their claims about how "the kids are suffering"

Op I have a dsis that at nearly 50 still is so shit with money they constantly live in and over an overdraft even though they have good incomes.

I've tried to help with insurances and a sky package deal that was over £100 a month etc and the tea cigarettes as she couldn't possibly smoke tobacco

My parents constantly bail them out and she never pays them bak but it's never going to change because she point blank refuses to budget her spending.

She refuses to have online banking apps as says it's not good security and still draws out a shit load of cash the minute it goes into the bank to spend then uses her card anyway yet she buys constantly on amazon and eBay

Always pleads poverty but buys only the best meat and ingredients.

Wow, he's literally throwing money he doesn't have at the kids / household instead of parenting them and learning to budget.

I’ve told him I’m not prepared to give him any more money when he is spending money hand over fist to be a Disney dad

Just to pick up on this bit, you do realise don't you that, having already lied about what he needed the money for, he'll most likely lie again and say the gaming spending has stopped?

I think I might offer practical help rather than financial in future. You could sit with him while he (not you!) goes on the insurance websites and changes companies to bring the costs down. You could advise him on an online shop.

The key is making him do it with your help, not you doing it for him - he needs to learn how to do it differently. But only if you think he's actually contrite and wanting to change.

The parenting piece is really up to him alone, though.

I’m glad you had it out with him and I’m glad it wasn’t gambling.

Well done OP, it needed to be said.

What a bloody horrible man.

Sorry but I would tell your SIL. He's damaging his kids - actively paying for shiny online shit so that he doesn't have to make any effort with them. She needs to know, she has the right to know - not only is he making sure they get deeper into debt, but he's a useless harmful parent too.

What a useless selfish twat
Please tell the SIL

Im struggling here really to see how he needs this money ! I would just say No to him if he asks again .I would also let your SIL know .The problem is if you say No he will ask DF again! Borrowing is a really bad habit ,as you will need to pay it back and be short the next month and so on. If he is genuinely hard up for food surely he will have to access a food bank or suchlike? Cheaper trainers for the kids too .He is being very irresponsible here!