So angry at brother

[Partychaos]

My brother was furloughed in March at 80% of his wage. SIL is working as normal (3 days a week) her work is hugely busy at the moment due to staff being off for childcare/self isolating/shielding and they are crying out for overtime. Brother is at home with 3 kids home schooling.

Brother messaged me in April to ask to borrow some money very apologetic didn’t budget well didn’t realize what a difference it would make to only get 80%. I said of course no problem I understand times are tough. Sent over £250.
May we were talking and he said both older kids needed new trainers and my niece had a growth spurt and he didn’t know what to do. I sorted through some of dd’s clothes and left a huge bin bag of summer clothes for them, I spoke to the kids and we chose the trainers together and I got them delivered to their house. A week later a message saying he didn’t know how he was going to afford the food shopping and he can’t believe how quickly they are going through food- yeah same mate. But I sent over £150.

June -again I’m so sorry to ask but can I borrow £300 I’ve got an unexpected bill I don’t know what to do. Don’t tell SIL I’ve asked. I asked why it was a secret because if I had a bill the person I would be telling is my spouse not my sibling. He said she would feel awkward about borrowing money but he doesn’t know what to do. I talked to dh and he agreed we could send £200 but £300 was too much of a stretch. Sent it over.

I’ve just spoken to my dad who is retired and surviving on state pension, he has nothing to his name and lives month to month. I often need to put extra electric and gas on for him or do a weeks shop. My brother has asked him for the other £100. I’m raging. My dad transferred everything from his account about £80 and has literally about £3 in his pocket. I asked why he said yes and he was upset thinking of his grandkids without food. I asked what he was going to do about food and he said oh I’ll manage It’ll be fine.
I’ve transferred £100 to my dad and have a food shop coming next week with my supermarket delivery.

I know times are tough but surely if your spouse is at home and you only work part time you would picking up all of the overtime possible (office job and social distancing in place so not high risk) Or you would apply for a mortgage holiday, or an overdraft, or a credit card. I don’t know their financial situation eg if they already have debt or what their credit scores are but surely you would look into things like food bank referrals before asking an elderly man for money.

Dh thinks I’m being unreasonable to be so angry that he asked my dad and that he had the ability to say no if he didn’t have it. I think he should have known that my dad would have given him his last for the kids who he adores and he knew that and kind of exploited it.
I’m having wine and I’m not talking to him tonight but I intend to confront him before I do am I being unreasonable to be so pissed off at him?

My cousin gave my Gran, who is on a state pension, a sob story about not being able to make ends due to forlough she gave him £400 she'd saved for Christmas and he went and bought himself a hot tub. He'd been previously bragging in the family whatsapp (Gran isn't in it) that he was better off as his work was topping his wages up the 20% so he wouldn't have to do without.

Other than calling down to beg for the money he didnt check on her during lockdown, offer to get her shopping or even ring for a chat to keep her company. My eyes have been well and truly opened to other people's selfishness.

Ellisandra has it. Whatever it’s going on he’s pitched it just right to keep milking you (as he sees it)

Oooh this was uncomfortable to read as your brother actually sounds a lot like mine.
I think you will uncover that he has been gambling or into something that he has already argued with his misses about. Hence why he wants to hide it from her.

On his wage I bet they have loads of mutual savings to rub salt into the wound but he wont be able to use it without his misses finding out what it was used on.
In my opinion you will not be liked at all for telling her, but you absolutely must. He is definitely lying to all of you and it needs nipping in the bud before he asks your Dad for more money and asks him not to tell you next time.

Unfortunately I have to agree with some PP that it sounds very much like gambling might be at the heart of this. I have been on furlough for 2 months now and the boredom is pretty overwhelming. I know lots who have turned to shopping or drinking to overcome the boredom but I can imagine gambling being very seductive right now.
Your poor father, I can’t express how much my heart goes out to him for his generosity!
And of course in your position I would be ready to tear my brother a new one! YANBU!

I agree with a pp about possible gambling. Seems like either he's trying to fleece you or has some kind of addiction.

I’m not sure about gambling, because the amounts aren’t that big. Pure speculation but I wonder about previous spending on a credit card and SIL doesn’t know about it. Wonder if this vaguely similar monthly amount for 3 months is the minimum repayment?

OP you are right to be livid, it feels like he is going to take, take, take from you rather than going without a single thing himself.
And as for @WindsorBlues cousin! Strewth! I would not have been able to say nothing about that!

@Leemooo with the post about iPads and VR headsets, I’m not sure there are savings!

I'd suspect gambling, too. You've given him an awful lot of money and equivalent worth in goods over the last few months and he still needs more. He doesn't want you to tell SIL and he's left your DF on the bones of his arse - that's addict behaviour.

I'd also be telling sil - I too strongly suspect the money ISN'T going on what he's claiming but instead on gambling, gaming, drink/drugs or similar luxuries.

He's taking the piss!

Everyone is having it tight right now he needs to get a clue!

The bills in June was a tyre for his car and a repair on the boiler.

These are not "unexpected" as such...

Cars need new tyres at roughly regular intervals, boilers need repairing/replacing.

Assuming they own their home and are actually responsible for the boiler they should have insurance/service agreements and contingency planning for such eventualities, that's just responsible home owning.

I never understand households that operate this way.

People who act like car repairs to get car through mot or even the mot itself are "unexpected" expenses - no cars need maintenance and responsible car owners budget for such things I certainly did when I had a car. Calculated not only petrol, insurance and mot costs but set aside an amount monthly to cover any repairs/maintenance.

Also in current circumstances I suspect there's a lot of people complaining about their reduced income who haven't bothered to tighten their belts and cut out luxuries - from minor things like cutting down grocery costs to larger items like cancelling sky or similar where possible.

They are general, predictable, car and household maintenance costs.

Exactly - says what I was trying to far more concisely

I presume that means he’s been capped at £2500 per month instead of £3100 that's a decent income! It really sounds as if he's just unwilling to cut back.

Everyone’s food bill has gone up not true, mines gone down plus while people's home grocery bill may have increased they're generally spending less on food bought while out so at the very least it should even put.

I’m not sure about gambling, because the amounts aren’t that big

What a ridiculous statement!

How do you think gambling problems start? Like any addiction it starts Small there are millions of apps and online sites that draw suckers in with "play for just 10p a game" type bollocks but a "game" only lasts a few secs and people play 10, 20, 100, 1000... before they realise how much they're spending and if they're doing it for hours every day the amounts creep up.

Also agree with the posters saying he's savvily sussed just how much he can regularly bleed op for! Something gamblers and other addicts can be very adept at.

Tell your SIL. My guess is he has an on-line gambling problem.

I reckon it's gambling too. Either new gambling debts or old ones he has to pay off. I'd phone your SIL and find out what's going on. Even on the pretext if they are having problems not to ask your Dad but come to you instead. She probably doesn't know anything about it

Ellisandra, in my painful experience the amounts go up fairly slowly until there is a God awful surge and the gambler is suddenly £1000s over their head. He might be masking it with credit cards loans, pay day lenders, borrowing a bit from all and sundry here and there. It's like spinning plates and suddenly it all comes crashing down - I suspect that the BIL is in the latter stages of plate spinning and the crash is imminent.

Speak to sil act like she already knows about it explain that your sorry you cannot longer afford to give them money and ask that he doesn't ask dad again as it left him very short and you had to cover it see how she reacts

You must tell your SIL because if you side with your brother she will never forgive you and auntie partychaos will not be welcomed again.

“ He is definitely lying to all of you and it needs nipping in the bud before he asks your Dad for more money and asks him not to tell you next time.”

None of us knows what’s going on but I’d be worried about this too.

Whatever it is his wife deserves to know, you deserve to keep your hard earned money or understand exactly why he needs it (I would give my sister whatever I could if she needed it but I know she would be honest with me), and he absolutely must not take anything more from your dad.

I don't think you're being unreasonable, particularly re. your Dad. Are you exceptionally wealthy?

I think lending less than a thousand to a family member isn't unusual (I think!) but I would be concerned about why he's not telling his wife (e.g. is spending money on alcohol/gambling or something else).

I thought gambling too...

Well, there is plenty of fruit picking to be done. And he could be saving money on food by bulk/home cooking. Trainers can be bought second hand or cheap no name brands. If, as a result of one member of the household only receiving 80% of their salary, they suddenly find themselves in hardship, esp when other costs such as petrol/going out etc have been saved, then I would question whether they have been living beyond their means. If they were that close to the breadline prior to lockdown, then perhaps sil should have been working full-time? Ultimately, they need to adjust their outcome/income or both and be responsible for themselves. Good luck getting your money back though. I think that's gone!

Op you're dad is lovely and you clearly follow after him.
I can see that you would be furious as would I be.
Ive nothing much to add other than its a conversation you need to have tomorrow when you have had time to gather yourself.
Enjoy youre wine.

I have this brother. This exact brother. 3 young kids, wife works part time. Furloughed/sort of couldn't make his bills. My mum now can't work, my dad is a pensioner and my mum was the main earner, they don't own their house and just about make ends meet. He borrowed £600 from them to move to a bigger house. This is more than they generally have in their account. Found out they spent £6000 buying all new shit they did not need for their new house and only gave parents half the money back. I am furious. I've been given the power over my dad's accounts when my mum is gone, and brother and SIL won't be getting another penny. He can hate me forever idc.

Parents cannot say no when grandkids are involved and my brother knows this, so does yours.

If I were you (and I have been to an extent!) I would tell him no and mean it. Tell your SIL this can't continue (if my DP was racking up family debt I'd want to know). Ask your dad to get on board the 'no train' as your brother won't ever learn to stand on his own two feet otherwise. Your brother will soon find a way to make ends meet when the handouts stop coming I'm sure.

I agree with telling your SIL.
You have gone above and beyond and there is something very dodgy about all this.
Enjoy your wine but you do need to address this tmrw

Bloody hell.

You are recovering from cancer and give them free childcare ?

And they can afford all that tech shit?

When you were on sick pay?

Your bother needs some forthright talk about the real world.

How DARE he borrow money off an elderly man who can barely afford to feed himself?

I would send them both an e mail. Saying that you are family. And will always help out in an emergency. You could only manage £200 because of the other money you have lent and you are really disappointed to find that your Dad was unable to afford his grocery shop because your brother had gone to him for the extra £100.

Tell him that you struggled at the beginning of this year and ate beans, and despite your illness you have been giving them free childcare. Tell him that you have had to go into debt / go without so that you could buy your Dad's groceries for the week and that you are sick of him viewing the family as a bank account. That next time he is short of money he should sell some tech rather than literally take the food from your father's mouth.

He’s got a secret vice he’s funding.

My exhusband was like this, kept me and the kids in charity shop clothes while he made 6 figures, then after the divorce was constantly borrowing from his mum and dad (pensioners). £300 here, £2000 there (we live abroad but the kids’ grandparents live in England). He’d also skip paying child support as he couldn’t make ends meet.

I told them how much he earns and he was cut off, but not till his mum died. Her inability to say no to him did not help his sense of entitlement to other people’s money.

For what it’s worth I know he’d wasted thousands on phone calls with sex workers (& god knows what else with them, and a lot of alcohol & meals out).