Who pays

[Courtney555]

If you were significantly better off than a really good friend, and it made no difference to you, whilst they were on a tight budget, would you always pay for coffees, (non extravagant) lunches etc.

I was going to put circumstances, then realised they were irrelevant as we are both nice, decent people, just one of us is really financially comfortable, and the other, for very genuine reasons, has very little money.

I love going out with her and our DC, we deliberately don't pick places with high entry fees (we both have children), but for example, if we go to the park, I'll buy everyone an ice-cream. If we meet for a Starbucks, I'll get the bill.

It's just kind of every time. And it's bugging me a little. She's not being entitled or a CF who could afford to pick up the whole bill herself. £20 I don't notice on a round of coffee and cake, is a tangible part of her weekly disposable income. I think there's an element that she knows it's negligible to me, so feels quite comfortable about it. And I don't begrudge it, I love her to bits, but when it's every time, I just think, once a month, she could say, "let's split it."

It's never anything over say £30, and I'd hate the thought of saying "shall we go halves" and her to feel obliged, then that was the money for her and DC dinner.

She's not a freeloader, truly, she's not. If it sounds like she is, it's my error in how I've worded this. I'm arguing internally, that, "£20/30 doesn't affect me, so what's the problem"...."but then 5 times a month, that's up to £150, which is a lot for her to be ok with accepting as treats"...."but the spend over a month doesn't affect me, so what's the problem"

So, AIBU. If we have a great time, as do our DC, and it's of immaterial consequence for me to pick up the tab for sundries, and very material for her, do I just keep doing it?

Or, just because it's immaterial, doesn't mean it's ok to keep doing it? Or more to the point, because it's a very material amount to her, should she be ok with accepting it on every occasion.

Myself and a family member have very different views here, would like to see general consensus.

(Quick clause, before this runs off on a stealth boast tangent, I hope people have the clarity to see this is not about being "significantly richer than yow" )

Really I would take a pack lunch here and there - you can survive on a pack up without taking your picnic blanket and curated hamper. Then I would still do a round of slushies here and there. I like being able to buy shit for friends who can’t. With a few we have had times of being rich and poor and just swop roles / cut our cloth as needed. I feel a bit sorry for her. How awkward that you don’t like a pack lunch and have kids who expect slushies etc when every time it highlights the difference in her kids’ experiences. When I have had friends who were less comfy with me paying my kids knew not to ask for ice creams/lunches/rides.

Yes they are @ravenmum

Yes! I can't have explained myself very well. The solution is not a picnic

No, you've said the solution is embarrassing her over a situation you have put you both in because you can't tell your children no. Go for it.

I have been on both sides of this situation and I'm such a people pleaser I use to just suck it up or let the friendship fizzle out.

My circumstances have changed now and I have a very limited amount of spare money. I don't expect others to subsides me and my children. If I commit to something I never expect someone to cover my expenses. And if someone (usually my sister) pays for an outing I would always offer to buy ice creams or drinks as a contribution and to not be piss taker.

It is the assumption and that is just plain rude. I hope that you can raise this and keep the friendship.

Oh and one friend’s little boy is a bugger, he will
Ask and tantrum for things I would never buy mine. I tell him no because actually I don’t want to indulge him in those circumstances. You can just say no - no we can’t stay for lunch today, nope we don’t need slushies. Whip out a multi pack of juices and a pack of biscuits and you can still do something niece but for literally a few quid.

Of course she should offer. But you've set a president she probably thinks you're ok with it. You've got a couple of choices

A - Talk to her

B - Tell her it's her round and see how she takes it ( could be v embarrassing for her)

C - Do something (as in a picnic) that takes away the issue but doesn't resolve the problem

D -Keep paying and get resentful

So does she never bring anything along at all? Or has she brought things along in the past? Assuming that offering to pay for a round of ice-creams would really be quite painful for her, what do you think that she could offer if a normal packed lunch is something you would actively avoid? Would you eat a home-made cake? Does she realise that you would accept something that simple, or might she have the impression that you wouldn't enjoy that?

If you want to continue the friendship but stop paying for everything, I wouldn't necessarily expect her to start picking up the tab occasionally. What I would do however is just start paying for whatever you both each order/your own child's ice creams/drinks etc.
Keep it completely fair

@Courtney555

I appreciate this is awkward for both of us, but I notice that it's always expected that I pay for things when we meet. I know our circumstances are different, and you're a good friend, so I'm happy to treat you and the DC, but it's making me feel a bit uncomfortable that it seems to be expected now, and that when the DC ask for things you leave it to me to make the decision, which makes me look like the bad guy if I say no.

I think that's pretty perfect. I'm going to just adjust it a little to:

"Look, I appreciate this is awkward for both of us, but I notice that it's always expected kind of become standard practice that I pay for things when we meet. I know our circumstances are different, and you're a good friend, so I'm happy to treat you and the DC, but it's making me feel a bit uncomfortable that it seems to be expected the norm now, and that when the DC ask for things you leave it to me to make the decision, which makes me look like the bad guy if I say no. I want us to all continue with what I feel is a great friendship for you, I and DC."

I have to say something, and I think that's about as best as it can be phrased. It's not without the risk of losing the friendship though, it's awkward, and embarrassing to have to say it, as many PP have pointed out.

Good edits! A little more diplomatic

Let us know how it goes when you speak to her, I hope she takes it in the right spirit!

The proposed message is certainly
Worth a shot. I wouldn’t be able to continue like this - you wil only become more and more resentful!

@BurtsBeesKnees yes yes.

She's not a CF. I've unintentionally set a precedent, that she thinks we're all ok with.

And I am in the most, but I think by now, I just kind of thought there'd be at least one gesture in return. I know she says thank you each time, but maybe she could tell her own children "no" instead of leaving it to me to address.

It's sounds like you've set a precedent and you've both become comfortable with the arrangement, although I do wonder if you are a pleaser and enjoy being the one who makes other happy by buying things (just because it's hot doesn't mean you need to buy ice lollies!).
Could you use lockdown as a way to break the cycle? Tell your friend you've noticed how much you've been able to save recently during lockdown by not buying coffee and cake, and that you want to save up for holiday/etc so let's arrange some trips out that don't cost anything.

NB: it's "for me", not "for I".

@JaniceWebster

Thats a good point about lockdown upthread!

surely now that things are reopening is the perfect time to rethink and readjust the situation!

Taking a break during the lockdown has made a lot of people think through.. so not really fair to accuse the OP of lying.

I wasnt accusing the OP of lying! Just that its a good time to make a change and use lockdown re evaluation of finances as a starting point for changing the dynamic.

I think my problem is that I will tell my children no.

"Mum, can we have slushies!!!"
"No, you had slushies last time"

Then no one has slushies.

Whereas with her DC, it's:

"Mum, can we all have lunch together!!!"
"Ooohhhh, I don't know about that...."
(Looks at me for response. DC note this and then turn to me)
"Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaase can we all have lunch"

Whereas, actually, there's nothing stopping her from:

"Mum, can we all have lunch!!!"
"Not today, we've got to get back for (anything)"

Are you also doing all the driving on these trips and meet-ups? You mentioned carpark tickets so I am guessing you are all in one car...that would mean something else that has become your responsibility.

Just seeing your last comment, you could also say "not today" and look back at her for back-up.

My DBigS is wedded, I am basic. I at the very least offer (genuinely prepared) to pay and pay for much more more for our DParents and spend lots of time with them, which she can I'll afford. But I hate a freeloader or a sponger.

Can you meet at each other's houses??

I see money as fluid and actually have a very similar set up with a friend. I love spending time with her and her daughter, and it's nice to do things together.

Stop going to places or doing activities that involve these kind of treats?

this ^ so that you know that if you suggest going somewhere that costs, you can say my treat with a clear conscience. Much better than letting a small jiggle fester and spoil the friendship.

I've been both the skint friend who just can not afford it and the slightly more comfortably-off friend who can easily afford it. Maybe I've just been lucky, but if anything I have had trouble in having the friend accept any generosity and always preferring just to do the cost-less alternative.

'It's hot so everyone has a lolly' 'fiver for car parking'

To be fair, this only happens with people who dont have to count the pennies. Everyone else 'saves the penny and walks'.

I was brought up in a comfortable household but we just never, ever had that kind of treat. So much so, that I nearly fell over when as an adult , my father offered ice cremes all round on an outing with his grandchildren.

A conversation definitely needs to be had. You can do the one you have already outlined. I think I would be tempted to employ a little white lie, saying I was afraid my D.C. were getting to expect treats when out so I am going to stop them all and ask her to back you up. Discuss together how best to introduce this new policy.

It's won't be easy, but it is simple.

Good luck.

Does she say thank you ?
Do her children thank you ?
Her giving in to her children and looking over at you ( the purse holder ) would annoy me.

OK fair enough. From your updates on this page I’d say that she IS being a CF. I think you actually need to say something like “it’s up to you, it’s your turn...” and turn away.

How skint is she OP? Not that it changes things in the sense she could say no, not to today!

Skint can be not much spare money for luxuries or skint as in a set amount left but choose to allow seat mate to buy each week.

@Honeyroar

OK fair enough. From your updates on this page I’d say that she IS being a CF. I think you actually need to say something like “it’s up to you, it’s your turn...” and turn away.

Or say "I haven't got my bank card today!"