Who pays

[Courtney555]

If you were significantly better off than a really good friend, and it made no difference to you, whilst they were on a tight budget, would you always pay for coffees, (non extravagant) lunches etc.

I was going to put circumstances, then realised they were irrelevant as we are both nice, decent people, just one of us is really financially comfortable, and the other, for very genuine reasons, has very little money.

I love going out with her and our DC, we deliberately don't pick places with high entry fees (we both have children), but for example, if we go to the park, I'll buy everyone an ice-cream. If we meet for a Starbucks, I'll get the bill.

It's just kind of every time. And it's bugging me a little. She's not being entitled or a CF who could afford to pick up the whole bill herself. £20 I don't notice on a round of coffee and cake, is a tangible part of her weekly disposable income. I think there's an element that she knows it's negligible to me, so feels quite comfortable about it. And I don't begrudge it, I love her to bits, but when it's every time, I just think, once a month, she could say, "let's split it."

It's never anything over say £30, and I'd hate the thought of saying "shall we go halves" and her to feel obliged, then that was the money for her and DC dinner.

She's not a freeloader, truly, she's not. If it sounds like she is, it's my error in how I've worded this. I'm arguing internally, that, "£20/30 doesn't affect me, so what's the problem"...."but then 5 times a month, that's up to £150, which is a lot for her to be ok with accepting as treats"...."but the spend over a month doesn't affect me, so what's the problem"

So, AIBU. If we have a great time, as do our DC, and it's of immaterial consequence for me to pick up the tab for sundries, and very material for her, do I just keep doing it?

Or, just because it's immaterial, doesn't mean it's ok to keep doing it? Or more to the point, because it's a very material amount to her, should she be ok with accepting it on every occasion.

Myself and a family member have very different views here, would like to see general consensus.

(Quick clause, before this runs off on a stealth boast tangent, I hope people have the clarity to see this is not about being "significantly richer than yow" )

Money is quite tight for us, but I absolutely hate the feeling of owing somebody. I met my friend in the park with the kids a couple of weeks ago and didn’t have any cash, she bought us drinks and I immediately transferred money to her bank even though she said not to. I think she is being a CF even though you don’t think she is.

I think I’d just say to her ‘ can we do something cheaper this week as I’ve spent more than I like to you eating out this month’ then you aren’t saying you can’t afford it but you have spent more than you prefer to .

I have been in a similar situation as you.
I knew my friend didnt expect anything and was genuinely skint. She had a part time minimum wage job and was a single parent.
However my friend did loads of unexpected nice stuff for me. Eg she came round with loads of tubs she planted for me because she is good at gardening. She would make a dress as she us a good seamstress.
I felt as if I was undercutting her as she is so wonderful and thoughtful.
Her circumstances have changed and I'm now a bit skint and her kids are now adults. She often treats me!

Oh it’s really unfair her basically using the kids to manipulate you into paying! She should be saying no kids you know we’re not buying icecream/having lunch today. If I was you I would say oh you’ll have to ask mummy I’ve only got enough change for X and Y. Pass it back to her. Don’t let her make you the bad guy!

Sorry but I think shes a bit cheeky. I think she should offer to pay now and then, at least for her own things if she is a bit short.
You could suggest a Jacob's join type picnic and say you're trying to cut back on spending at the moment. Doesnt have to be a grand affair, see how she reacts.

It's getting a little clearer now I say it aloud.

There is nothing preventing her from telling her children no. What she does, is essentially say, "it's down to Courtney" but this let's all the children know it's a "yes" from her, which actually is a bit cheeky because she's not accountable for any of it, and she has already passively approved it.

In fairness, she probably believes passing the buck is my opportunity to either say yes if I'm happy to buy lunch, or no if I'm not.

And I think my problem is, I'm quite ok with telling my own children "no, not today" but I feel bad telling her children no, when she's already implied it's fine, so I'm the one letting her children down. Plus, they do all have a great time.

There is nothing to stop her inviting you and children round once a month to bake cupcakes or similar. Or bringing stale bread to feed the ducks and some sweets/juice for children. So she’s returning the hospitality.

I’m not sure I could be friends with someone who didn’t think of that herself.

My best friend was made redundant 10 months ago as his company was downsizing and got rid of the younger employees (he's 32). Even pre COVID it's quite hard to find a job in his field. He does get some unemployment benefit and had a small redundancy payment so he can pay his rent and bills. He has subsequently decided to study an OU type course so is paying tuition (but also still looking for work but since confinement companies seem to have stopped recruiting and advertising positions completely).

Whenever we go anywhere he offers to pay and we all the bill. We go to inexpensive places for a drink or two or a coffee. When we have dinner we go to my house (as he has flatmates) and he brings some of the ingredients / bread / wine / beer. It isn't much change from how we used to socialise before he was made redundant. He would insist on paying half wherever went so I invite him to my place or suggest one of the less expensive bars / cafés that we like.

OP, your friend should suggest places in her price range and go halves. She is a CF.

@crispy

That's kind of how I feel. Just once in a blue moon, it would be nice to have a kind gesture. Something really simple would absolutely be appreciated. A mini bag of sweets for the DC. A homemade biscuit. A flask of tea. "Courtney, I know you're doing your garden, why don't I bring DC to play, and we'll attack the weeds"

It would go such a long way.

@crispysausagerolls

I really understand what you are saying/feel a few posters are missing the point by suggesting you suggest a picnic or otherwise. The point is she should OFFER and isn’t doing so off her own back. That’s what’s causing the annoyance.

I think if you have such a disparity, it can be a bit false from her side to offer every time, knowing full well you are likely to pay. But I do think she should on occasion just bring something herself or insist on paying.

We had a family friend that we took on holiday for 2 weeks. An adult I should say. All expenses, meals, flights and accommodation paid for, and she didn’t offer so much as a cup of coffee. It rankles - I get it.

It’s a very tricky one as if you mention it it will only make the situation more awkward...

Isnt the point that the friend cant pay? Not that she doesnt want to? In which case the snacks/picnic would work well? Can we have slushies/ lunch/ ice cream ? Drinks/snacks/ picnic is offered instead. Everyone happy !

I get what you mean. I used to have lunch out with a friend. She worked, I don't but my dh earned a lot more than she did. I thought we should take it in turns to pay for lunch. I paid two on the trot then next time she suggested coming to me. That's fine. Prefer to stay home. She always comes to me and did used to bring a light lunch or a pudding but now I just provide everything then maybe one time in four I accept an offer to bring something if it is made.

Make the offer. Give a gesture. The other can graciously refuse but doesn't get to complain but to never offer, that is rude. Trouble is offering if they can't actually afford to be taken up on it.

I was your friend 20 years ago OP..

We went to the park and I bought home made stuff that I would always make anyway.

I was mortified once when we went to a NT place and had friend had to pay the parking (I hadn't realised my 2:1 tickets didn't include this and had NO money..

Can I say how awful it is to be the 'poor friend' ..

Do you think she is deliberately hiding funds from you that she could afford ? Or is she GENUINELY poor ? If the latter then PLEASE be kind and if a dear friend then keep doing what you are doing .

"So then, I'm back to, I've brought a lovely spread for my side, and I let them sit and eat it while she and her DC look on with a sandwich. I think that's unpalatable for both parties. So I'd end up letting her and them tuck into ours."
This is you creating a problem though. You are deciding it's unpalatable for them and projecting your own guilt onto the situation when they might be happy with their sandwiches. If you're going to stop spending £150 a month on her you have to allow her to be within her own budget. And if it turns out her budget is zero but you still want to spend time with her then you have to accept it and not swoop in to save the day.

Yes OP.

Another example I have is that a good friend of mine wanted to be involved in my
Gardening project. It’s her hobby and she loves it/insisted on doing it and really wanted to, but it’s also hard work and of course benefits me greatly. So every so often she received a bouquet of flowers or I make some of her favourite sweet treats. So on and so forth.

It’s not about the money. It’s about recognising a friend is being kind and appreciating it through any sort of gesture.

If I was your friend, OP, i think I would be embarrassed at always being on the receiving end. So I would probably offer an alternative like providing a simple picnic and bringing a flask of coffee every now and then. If she ever mentions any discomfort she feels at you always paying, you could suggest it to her. Otherwise, meet less frequently so the relationship is more balanced.

She IS a cheeky fucker!

She’s on a tight budget, so knows what these things cost and that they add up.

I’d just stop treating her / her DC.

Sorry posted wrong thread. I've asked for it to be deleted

I think it’s really rude not to offer. If one person is skint, you need to do things that don’t cost money-

Coffee at each other’s house.
Day at beach (take own drink and snacks).
Afternoon at park (take own drinks).

That what me and my friends did for years!

I regularly pay for my friends when we are out and about because I can and I like doing it.

If a friend offers to pay for me I will accept because I know they want to do it too.

But a lot of my friends are careful with money and I wouldn't insist we went to expensive places or had expensive meals because I know they wouldn't be comfortable. They'd be ok with me picking up the coffee and cake tab but not a 2 course lunch with wine for instance and absolutely none of them would expect me to do it every single time.

It seems you have set a precedent.

She’s training her DC to be cheeky too!

I think it’s lovely that you help your friend out, I have done the same, however she should show you friendship in other ways. Does she do things that are kind but don’t cost a lot I.e inviting you round for a cheap homemade dinner/offering to babysit/offering to drive to places etc?

Your friend is a cf I'm afraid. If I was short of money and going out for the day I would bring a picnic. Regardless of what you are doing. The fact that it keeps happening even when not planned is no excuse on her part. I've got 4 children. They know that sometimes I won't buy ice cream because it costs £20 but I'll stop and get lollies from the shop later. Even when others might be getting ice cream.

I would be totally rankled by this. I often buy my friends a coffee or their children something. That's normal because they do it too. No one works out who's turn it is. It's nice that you treat your friend. It's not nice that she has come to expect it. In her position I would be mortified.

OP I'm your friend in this situation.

My best friend (for almost 40 years) has a household income in the region of £200,000 whereas my household income was £20,000 (start new job in a fortnight with a salary increase but still only takes my income to £30,000).

We do lots of things together & she picks up the bill more than I do - but I pick up the bill whenever I can.

Sometimes it's just a Costa, movie tickets or a Chinese but where I can afford it I pay. There are times that she'll suggest something & I'll say sorry can't afford that this month & she'll reply not to worry about it, sometimes she'll present it as a fait accompli by announcing she has tickets for a show etc & how it'll be a fab night out.

I also do little things for her like show up with her favourite wine & chocs when I pop in for coffee and I always get her something she'll love for birthdays & Christmas.

We have a shared history that includes supporting each other through the turbulent teenage years, university, 3 marriages, 7 births, 2 divorces, 1 career change & numerous deaths - this is way more important to either of us than keeping track of who paid for the last coffee.

That being said your friend is a CF to expect you to always pay for everything for everyone every time you go anywhere!

Then the bill comes, and it's not that she ignores it or pretends she hasn't seen it, she just kind of goes a bit quiet and avoids eye contact while I pay

She's clearly embarrassed. But, once in a while, she needs to say "You get the bill all the time. Let me get this." Or she needs to say to her children and to you "No, the budget is a bit tight this week. We'll go home now." And stand by it no matter how much you say "It's OK, my treat."

It seems to me she needs to show you she understands your generosity and is prepared to deal with it like a grown up.

Although, I"m thinking there's an obvious reverse aIBU here - written from your friend's perspective. I think it would be quite reasonable.

It sounds like you're both good people , but she does need to be more explicit about acknowledging the situation and trying to do something about it.