Who pays

[Courtney555]

If you were significantly better off than a really good friend, and it made no difference to you, whilst they were on a tight budget, would you always pay for coffees, (non extravagant) lunches etc.

I was going to put circumstances, then realised they were irrelevant as we are both nice, decent people, just one of us is really financially comfortable, and the other, for very genuine reasons, has very little money.

I love going out with her and our DC, we deliberately don't pick places with high entry fees (we both have children), but for example, if we go to the park, I'll buy everyone an ice-cream. If we meet for a Starbucks, I'll get the bill.

It's just kind of every time. And it's bugging me a little. She's not being entitled or a CF who could afford to pick up the whole bill herself. £20 I don't notice on a round of coffee and cake, is a tangible part of her weekly disposable income. I think there's an element that she knows it's negligible to me, so feels quite comfortable about it. And I don't begrudge it, I love her to bits, but when it's every time, I just think, once a month, she could say, "let's split it."

It's never anything over say £30, and I'd hate the thought of saying "shall we go halves" and her to feel obliged, then that was the money for her and DC dinner.

She's not a freeloader, truly, she's not. If it sounds like she is, it's my error in how I've worded this. I'm arguing internally, that, "£20/30 doesn't affect me, so what's the problem"...."but then 5 times a month, that's up to £150, which is a lot for her to be ok with accepting as treats"...."but the spend over a month doesn't affect me, so what's the problem"

So, AIBU. If we have a great time, as do our DC, and it's of immaterial consequence for me to pick up the tab for sundries, and very material for her, do I just keep doing it?

Or, just because it's immaterial, doesn't mean it's ok to keep doing it? Or more to the point, because it's a very material amount to her, should she be ok with accepting it on every occasion.

Myself and a family member have very different views here, would like to see general consensus.

(Quick clause, before this runs off on a stealth boast tangent, I hope people have the clarity to see this is not about being "significantly richer than yow" )

She’s a freeloader, it makes you feel better to rescue her and her children from days of no treats whatsoever.
The first couple of times is awkward, but just rein it in. Take cash, not enough for everyone.
It sounds like you don’t feel valued because she offers to pay.

Never ! I meant because she never offers

This is a tough one...

You've sent a trend OP, and they are always hard to break. But if you are starting to resent it, then you CAN stop. But then you could always justify that the £150 are the "cost of admission" to maintaining a friendship with this person in a manner you enjoy.

If you stop paying, you have to be ready for friend to turn around and say "I can't go out for coffee/meal/fee-paying place with DCs. I can't afford it." And there would then be a change to the relationship.

@rayoflightboy £150 is a lot of money. But if OP isn’t willing to look at her own self and do some reflection that she also is responsible.... well.

In which way is she responsible, @Redroses05?

I think she is cheeky with not telling her kids no.
If I were you I would start saying no every time. I’d just pack a couple of water bottles and apples for snack/drink time. Then at lunch time say no you have lunch ready at home.
See if she still wants to meet up so frequently.

As for the picnic, not sure why you’re taking so much offence at the suggestions! It is about giving you both the opportunity to look after your own family at the cost you can afford. Leave the hamper, it’s not an all day event, each take your own blanket, eat your posh salad. Job done.

And yes, if it was me in her position, I would reciprocate with eg homemade cake and juice boxes or something. Or I would definitely say no every time to my kids. Im not sure I’d do your garden though!

Wowsers. £150 per month is £1800 per year.

@HollowTalk because people have made other suggestions that she COULD cut the day shorter, take her own food. Go to the park with a picnic but OP was turning her nose up to the idea assuming her friend would not like it. Beggars can’t be choosers I’m sure her friend would not mind!
Also they can go to each other’s houses.

Not everybody has the same budget and it is awkward when you want to buy your child an ice cream but yet you don’t want to leave your friends kids out. I can really relate. OP friends is not forcing her to get her purse out OP feels obliged to do it.

I'm interested as to why the view isn't, you bring what you want

Oh, OP, this rather took my breath away. Would you really teach your DC to consume luxuries infront of people who cannot, or choose not to, afford the same treats? I'm sure you can't mean that but I can't quite fathom what you did mean.

I'm just a bit surprised that your 'options' seem to be a bit different from mine. My options would be

• decide it is worth their company and pay. As soon as you start to notice the unevenness, though, this ship has probably sailed.

• have the chat, say you want to cut down spending on DC and ask her to back you up by saying no to her DC rather than let them ask yiu

• do things together that don't involve money. Meet at a free car park. Take water. Say no to any cost options. When your DC become hungry, say it's been fun, time to get home for lunch or whatever.

How bad would that be? Having reread what I saw, I'd do both the second and third. Doing it without asking for her support might be awkward.

don't want the tiny gesture. It's that it's never been thought of.

Please consider that you might be wrong about this. There are lots of scenarios. Here you will read what each posted would be feeling in that scenario. You can choose to think you know, but you really can't know.

You could ask her but it would be tricky to find the way to get an honest answer from her. Perhaps a 'how do you feel about...' if you were alone without DC, might open up a conversation.

It would also risk a rift but if it worked you would reach a new level of friendship. I like to think that I would give it a try.

What I would not do is consider treating my children in front of hers. I'm sure now that I have misunderstood that you ever considered just treating your own in front of hers.

Oh, it's probably old fashioned now but my parents rule was that asking parents anything in front of others would not lead to the outcome that I wanted. It's a good rule.

I'd be pissed off with her making me the bad guy
Bat it back to her and say 'it's up to your mum/mummy'
If she genuinely has no money, her children will be used to hearing her say 'no'
I don't mean that in a horrible way, weve all been there, so why can't she say it in front of you?

[quote Redroses05]**@HollowTalk* because people have made other suggestions that she COULD cut the day shorter, take her own food. Go to the park with a picnic but OP was turning her nose up to the idea assuming* her friend would not like it. Beggars can’t be choosers I’m sure her friend would not mind!
Also they can go to each other’s houses.

Not everybody has the same budget and it is awkward when you want to buy your child an ice cream but yet you don’t want to leave your friends kids out. I can really relate. OP friends is not forcing her to get her purse out OP feels obliged to do it.[/quote]
But the fact the OP feels obliged, doesn't mean it's her fault, does it? Yet you said she was responsible. I know that feeling when you don't want to leave your friends out. I would have to tell mine in advance not to ask for anything.

And they can't go to each other's houses. Her friend won't travel to the OP's house and doesn't want the Op in her house, from the sound of it. The friend says she wants to go out.

OP, I rather think you need to take responsibility for creating this situation, which you’re now no longer willing to tolerate.

She looks to you for the response as you are the one in the driving seat. You made it that way. You want to spend money to have a nice time.
She can’t.
I’m confused that you have often peppered your follow up comments with mentions that on balance you don’t really mind when you clearly mind very much.
I don’t think you can ever say anything directly. How humiliating that would be.

@FinallyHere I agree with you and I sincerely hope that isn’t an old fashioned point of view. I will be teaching my three year old the same. It appears to be one of the main problems with this whole situation.

I would just say I’m saving at the moment or I need to cut back as I’ve been spending way too much money. Given the COVID-19 situation there’s many excuses OP can make this is her responsibility. Trouble is OP what ever she decides to do needs to stand firm. @Hollowtalk she did turn her nose up to bringing her own food?
It’s hard because her friend does sound like she’s taking advantage but then again if this just started since her reduction in hours I’m not sure. I think there needs to be a bit of change on both parts. I’ve had friends before and I’ve had to change where we go and other times I’ve put my foot down and continued with my originally plan and said we will have to meet another time...I have felt obligated too but at the end of the day it’s MY responsibility I don’t have to do it OP has a choice and it’s clearly bothering her so I think it’s best she stops doing it on a regular basis because £150 is an awful lot of money. I don’t even spend that a month myself on coffee.

How long has this been going on OP and what is generally ordered in Starbucks? Is it coffee and a chat or drinks, sandwiches and cakes for everyone?

Does she monitor what her dc's ask for?

Say your taking a flask of hot water and some of those cappuccino sachets and taking a cake.

I've stopped all the coffee and cake buying whenever we leave the house as it adds up to a small holiday each year but I'm happy to bring my own.

I would just say I’m saving at the moment or I need to cut back as I’ve been spending way too much money.

Same.

I completely agree with you op. I am in your situation I earn substantially more than my BFF but she will pay sometimes - I might spend 100 and then She spends 30 but she would never just not offer. I think your friend is a CF to be honest. I'm sure she could afford a coffee now and again. In your situation I would still see my friend and ask them round the house etc but if I was going out I think I'd invite someone else

@pigeon999

I have friends like op (well used to anyway!)

There is base expectation that they can buy everything, including friendships on their own terms.

Now it is niggling but still, the friend may love to picnic or do other thins that don't involve ice creams or lunches out but can't assert herself in the friendship because the imbalance now of power.

There's a word I see used often on Mumsnet but have never had cause to use it before seeing your posts @pigeon999

Unhinged.

@drinkstoomuchwine it seems we agree on the approach to manners. I do also very much identify with your user name

maybe there is a link :-)

It stops being OK when it becomes a problem for you which it sounds like it might be for one reason or another. Be that the opinion of your family or because you are starting to feel like she is taking advantage of you. You need to forget about everyone else's opinion and ask yourself does it matter to you. If it does then you have 2 choices stop doing it as regularly/at all or suggest to her that you split the bill occasionally. Her response to either of these will give you an idea if she is free loading or if it has become an expectation. There is no harm if you are comfortable with it in having a chat with her. However if it genuinely doesnt bother you then carry on and dont worry what others think or say about it.

A lot of people have learned during this crisis that they have wasted a hell of a lot of money on small items that mount up. Perhaps you could say something along those lines to her, and suggest taking your own things for a while? Her attitude to that will tell you a lot. If you say something like, "I was just working out my money and realised I've spent £150 last month just on food in the park! I was really shocked! I'm going to have to stop that and I'm telling my kids they can only have ice cream in the house. I'll be bringing a bottle of squash and some biscuits next time!" and leave it at that. Then take the squash and biscuits, or whatever, and see what happens.

@roxfox - @pigeon999 is right - there is a definite imbalance of power.
That’s how this situation has happened.

@FinallyHere - I’m glad. And thank you.
(In the panic of needing an interesting and reflective username when I signed up for MN I think I thought I was at the confessional).

@Courtney555 Next time you meet up, choose somewhere cheaper than Starbucks for a start to be fair to her, then say can You both pay separately as you have had to cut back on outgoings Due to blah blah whatever.

If the money wouldn't impact me and meant we could spend more time together I would spend it everytime.