Who pays

[Courtney555]

If you were significantly better off than a really good friend, and it made no difference to you, whilst they were on a tight budget, would you always pay for coffees, (non extravagant) lunches etc.

I was going to put circumstances, then realised they were irrelevant as we are both nice, decent people, just one of us is really financially comfortable, and the other, for very genuine reasons, has very little money.

I love going out with her and our DC, we deliberately don't pick places with high entry fees (we both have children), but for example, if we go to the park, I'll buy everyone an ice-cream. If we meet for a Starbucks, I'll get the bill.

It's just kind of every time. And it's bugging me a little. She's not being entitled or a CF who could afford to pick up the whole bill herself. £20 I don't notice on a round of coffee and cake, is a tangible part of her weekly disposable income. I think there's an element that she knows it's negligible to me, so feels quite comfortable about it. And I don't begrudge it, I love her to bits, but when it's every time, I just think, once a month, she could say, "let's split it."

It's never anything over say £30, and I'd hate the thought of saying "shall we go halves" and her to feel obliged, then that was the money for her and DC dinner.

She's not a freeloader, truly, she's not. If it sounds like she is, it's my error in how I've worded this. I'm arguing internally, that, "£20/30 doesn't affect me, so what's the problem"...."but then 5 times a month, that's up to £150, which is a lot for her to be ok with accepting as treats"...."but the spend over a month doesn't affect me, so what's the problem"

So, AIBU. If we have a great time, as do our DC, and it's of immaterial consequence for me to pick up the tab for sundries, and very material for her, do I just keep doing it?

Or, just because it's immaterial, doesn't mean it's ok to keep doing it? Or more to the point, because it's a very material amount to her, should she be ok with accepting it on every occasion.

Myself and a family member have very different views here, would like to see general consensus.

(Quick clause, before this runs off on a stealth boast tangent, I hope people have the clarity to see this is not about being "significantly richer than yow" )

Maybe you are right to limit outings to once a month. If she asks, say the cost adds up, and you can't afford it. It won't do her harm to realise that she is not the only one who has to prioritise spending.

You say you both enjoy eating out. That might have been affordable when it was just a couple of adults, but taking two families out for meals and treats is going to mount up and is probably way out of her league now.

You have dismissed picnics, but most children I know prefer a picnic to eating in a food restaurant. I agree they wouldn't be too keen on a cheese sandwich. But they seem delighted with a few carrot and cucumber sticks, small tomatoes and a few small sausages or sausage rolls. This costs a fraction of going to a restaurant. Maybe you are transferring your adult preferences to your children, which is sad for your friend's children because they are not learning to enjoy things that she can afford.

@ravenmum your right. It’s OP assuming how her friend feels. It seems she doesn’t actually know or her true situation. No where is open to sit in and have a coffee at the minute. So you would think a play date at home would be best. OP even on this thread still insists on days out!!

I have no sympathy for OP. If you can’t be willing to suggest to bring some food from home and see how the day goes well you have made a rod for your own back.

I’ve read the full thread and to be honest - if it was a good friend and I could afford it easily, I would keep paying as I enjoyed their company. You said she always says thank you.

This

I can see how it's annoying you. But maybe this day out is the only treat her DC'a actually get and she relies on you feeding them' once a week. That said it is cheeky but she might consider you to be a good enough person to help her.

Would she do the same if the roles were reversed?

I read the whole thread. Except I didn’t need to, because in your OP, you say:
And I don't begrudge it, I love her to bits, but when it's every time, I just think, once a month, she could say, "let's split it."

She is a massive CF and you need to learn to say no.

No way could I keep on taking from someone as much as she is.

Have you ever actually asked her to join you in a genuinely free day out? How do you know none of you would enjoy it? It feels like an assumption.

Some rather nasty comments on here - Op your picnic hamper seems to have pissed off a lot of people, not sure why, you were simply being honest. I don't actually disagree with those people saying (without the vitriol) why not suggest to her that you both just bring a simple packed lunch/picnic. It doesn't have to be rubbish, but it can be inexpensive. And no to requests for slushies.

I am not poor, in fact some might think I am well off in comparison to others (may have been true before lockdown), and I can put on an excellent spread for a picnic or garden party, but when I meet friends for a walk to the park or a trip to the beach, all the kids want is a simple sandwich, crisps, piece of fruit and bottle of water. They love a picnic, and this is sufficient.

I think, as many on here have said, that is the compromise that will work for you both.

I can see how it's annoying you. But maybe this day out is the only treat her DC'a actually get and she relies on you feeding them' once a week. That said it is cheeky but she might consider you to be a good enough person to help her.

Would she do the same if the roles were reversed?

Yes , I genuinely believe she would. The difference is, I wouldn't accept it on such a continual basis.

And yes, people are properly obsessed with these picnics aren't they, they like to find a tangent and make it the "problem".

Oh I'm not so sure. MIL and FIL lived in poverty- to the point where dh's sister phoned to see if we'd go halves when their boiler broke. All theor children remember being hungry. They never ever had the money for a round or a meal out.FIL did suddenly. There was over a million in the bank.Decent people pay theor way or make their excuses. She's a scrounge.

And this is obviously a common occurrence for people living in council flats that the OP should consider.

Unless you actually have a job that pays a million pounds over the course of your lifetime and literally never spend a penny on rent that is not the OP's friend's situation.

Yes , I genuinely believe she would. The difference is, I wouldn't accept it on such a continual basis.

I think what you need to consider now OP is how much is this friendship worth. As suggested up thread, need a bit later on after you and your DC's have eaten.

Just needs a bit of a tact I think OP.

I think a direct message about it is likely to upset your friend so I wouldn't do that. And I don't think you should continue to pay if you're not happy doing that.

In your shoes, I'd probably just text next time you're planning an outing with her and just say "Are we ok to go to the park/for a walk/something else free today? Trying to save a bit of money at the moment". Then your friend will get the message and will know that you'll be saying no to treats, but you've not embarrassed her.

@pigeon999

You sound abusive

Now this is a ridiculous comment.

I made a long post about the difference between sandwiches and picnics and OP just ignored it. I honestly think there’s a middle way.

OP I think you just need to be the bad guy and say no to her kids. Especially if you've already said no to yours?? It's a shame that your kids might miss out on the occasions when you're with this family but they will be OK, it's only here and there.

The bit I don't get OP is why you don't speak to her about this. It may be awkward but no matter how often you meet the feeling of frustration and/ or resentment will be still there underlying everything.

It is my theory that 95% of Mumsnet issues could be resolved straight away if people just communicated honestly and openly in the first place.

I think the picnic comment is just that it's a little ridiculous. You don't want to suggest a picnic or whatever, thus enabling her to get organised too and bring something within her budget, because then you would feel guilty about having 'better' food than her and the kids. But equally you wouldn't be prepared to take a 'lesser' picnic because you and your kids wouldn't like it.

That is purely your issue. And makes you sound very much like you think you have rarefied tastes.

My friend is much more well off then I am and can afford to work part time. I would never dream of expecting her to pay and we always split the bill 50/50.

Mil always moans that when she goes out with her cousin and it’s ‘her turn’ it’s somewhere pricier than when it’s cousins turn. She doesn’t comprehend that her cousin drives them to all the places so has all those associated costs. She also expects us to pay every tine she suggests going out. We again have the car and a mortgage etc. She has a good pension, owns her house and has no car as she never bothered learning to drive (just burdens everyone else). She’ll say ‘oh I’m desperate for a cup of tea let’s go to x’ (she really wasn’t impressed when I said no you have a kettle at home and just dropped her off early)then she gets cake or a breakfast and when the bill comes just sits waiting for us. I now say ‘oh that’s £6 mil, are you paying cash or card’ she doesn’t like me much.

I'm completely on your side. Any generosity is now replaced with resentment.

I had a friend like this when my children were small. We met at playgroup and hung out together. She used to come round on a Saturday morning (I'd do the shopping on Friday night, as she knew) and the kids would open the fridge and say, "Oh Mum, there are (eg) chocolate mousses here! Can we have some?" (Note not even 'one.') And she would say, "Oh I don't know, you'll have to ask Auntie HollowTalk." Every single bloody time. It took my daughter screaming "Why do they have to come here? They eat all our treats!" to stop them coming round.

We are hidebound by our politeness. Not surprisingly, these attacks on the fridge didn't happen when my (then) husband was in the room. They seemed to know instinctively that he'd have none of it. I found it very very difficult to say no to kids who had less than my own - though the reason for that was that she didn't go back to work and I did.

OP you sound like a lovely friend and I completely understand your frustration.

When you said earlier you don’t know why it niggles at you I think it’s to do with manners. Your friend and her DC might say thank you every time you treat them but the polite thing to do would be to offer something to you. She obviously doesn’t want to offer anything for fear you might take her up on it but she could acknowledge the fact you are spending so much on her and her DC (regardless of whether it’s actually a lot for you, I don’t know anyone who expects lunch/Starbucks/ice creams out multiple times a month on someone else’s dime).

She should be saying ‘I realise how much you are spending and although I can’t reciprocate I just want to let you know how much I appreciate it and the kids really love it too. If there’s anything I can do for you let me know’

To a pp’s suggestion the OP is abusive is just ridiculous.

OP as others have said I’d just stop saying yes to her DC’s requests and just said ‘sorry not today’. Or maybe you only bring a certain amount of cash out with you and say ‘I’ve only got £20 on me, what do you suggest?’ If she then says ‘I have no cash on me either’ you could just then say ‘let’s leave it for today then eh?’

If she actually says anything to you about the change in situation then you can bring it up that you feel a bit taken for granted. But otherwise carry on treating her ONLY the times you are genuinely happy to do so

Because it's fucking shit when your kids can't have something because you can't afford it but the other kids you are with are enjoying an ice cream/slushy/whatever as your kids look on empty handed.

It is but its not down to @Courtney555 to bankroll this woman.

She knows she has no spare cash,so either she doesnt go or goes and doesnt put the poor face on.

I think giving your kids pocketmoney is the way forward.Just make sure they spend it on themselves.

I found it very very difficult to say no to kids who had less than my own

Yes.

In fact, with virtually any other of my friends, who are on the same disposable income, or less of a gap, and their DC repeatedly did this, I would have no issue with saying, "What am I? Bank of Courtney lol. Go and ask your mother." But I obviously can't do that here. Although, with other friends, it's a lot more "you got the coffees, I'll get the soft play" and not just one sided.

My best friend is considerably better off than I am. That being said I’m not in any way struggling. We generally always split the bill unless it’s a birthday or a celebration. Thinking about it now, last week I bought her, her son and I all ice cream and drinks while out a walk and it didn’t cross my mind to think she is mega bucks in relation to me

Poverty is hard. It takes a huge mental load to keep a family fed and healthy on benefits. It’s degrading, emotionally exhausting and it’s hard to escape. Her hours are cut, she can’t put petrol in the “old banger” you mentioned she has. She’s had to move to a worse rented property that she’s too embarrassed to have friends in

Poverty is hard,i have had friends drop over food to me when i have had literally nothing.

But being poor is not an excuse to expect people to keep paying for you.

She is a CF for the simple fact she expects it now.She even has her kids in on the act.

I dont know why people are going on about the picnic or swimming.At the end of the day 150 a month is a lot of money.Thats some peoples shopping money.Its not like a coffee and thats it.

You can do absolutely millions of things which won't cost money. Choose those things. Take a flask of coffee and bake a cake fgs....she probably feels really awkward. It's really hard when you are broke. I could never have afforded starbucks when my kids were little...and found well off friends who suggested it (because to them it was nothing ) so stressful. £20 was a quarter of my weekly food bill. If you care for your friend, have fun doing free stuff with her.

I grew up in what I now know was poverty, but of course as kids you don’t really realise, especially when you have two loving parents who did their best for us and loved us unconditionally. Our house was small and poor but our friends didn’t give a shit and we always had friends around because my parents made them welcome.

I don’t think my mum would have accepted anyone paying for her kids on a weekly basis! And I don’t think your friend is teaching her kids a good lesson. Better to go without then rely on others.

Whilst I think your friend is being presumptuous now and that this needs to be reined in, I do think that she isn’t completely to blame for how this has come about.