Who pays

[Courtney555]

If you were significantly better off than a really good friend, and it made no difference to you, whilst they were on a tight budget, would you always pay for coffees, (non extravagant) lunches etc.

I was going to put circumstances, then realised they were irrelevant as we are both nice, decent people, just one of us is really financially comfortable, and the other, for very genuine reasons, has very little money.

I love going out with her and our DC, we deliberately don't pick places with high entry fees (we both have children), but for example, if we go to the park, I'll buy everyone an ice-cream. If we meet for a Starbucks, I'll get the bill.

It's just kind of every time. And it's bugging me a little. She's not being entitled or a CF who could afford to pick up the whole bill herself. £20 I don't notice on a round of coffee and cake, is a tangible part of her weekly disposable income. I think there's an element that she knows it's negligible to me, so feels quite comfortable about it. And I don't begrudge it, I love her to bits, but when it's every time, I just think, once a month, she could say, "let's split it."

It's never anything over say £30, and I'd hate the thought of saying "shall we go halves" and her to feel obliged, then that was the money for her and DC dinner.

She's not a freeloader, truly, she's not. If it sounds like she is, it's my error in how I've worded this. I'm arguing internally, that, "£20/30 doesn't affect me, so what's the problem"...."but then 5 times a month, that's up to £150, which is a lot for her to be ok with accepting as treats"...."but the spend over a month doesn't affect me, so what's the problem"

So, AIBU. If we have a great time, as do our DC, and it's of immaterial consequence for me to pick up the tab for sundries, and very material for her, do I just keep doing it?

Or, just because it's immaterial, doesn't mean it's ok to keep doing it? Or more to the point, because it's a very material amount to her, should she be ok with accepting it on every occasion.

Myself and a family member have very different views here, would like to see general consensus.

(Quick clause, before this runs off on a stealth boast tangent, I hope people have the clarity to see this is not about being "significantly richer than yow" )

There are proportion of people out there who are perfectly ' nice ' and even better off than your friend, who just never offer to pay. Often for ease in a busy cafe with kids in tow I'll say "oh I'll get the coffees" or at a bar where there's a queue. I find it baffling, but for a select number of people, the favour is never returned or acknowledged, so I now see them less. It's an irritation in life I don't need!

@TimeWastingButFun

Why don't you suggest a picnic next time, each of you bring some food. Then she can bring what she can afford and not worry about the high cafe prices.

Good idea

Take some drinks with you and stop buying them ? Freeze some bottles of juice and they’ll make a decent sub for an ice lolly if stored in with an ice pack or two

Meet after lunch

Tell her that you’ll bring water and a pack of grapes to share

Keep it low key and low budget

If the children ask for anything, just say “not this time but perhaps next time”

Something doesn’t seem right here. Is your friend definitely that broke? Do you know roughly what she earns? Because you can invite your friend over to play with kids at your house and pick her up for a change.
Another observation OP you seemed to be out all day from morning till afternoon this is costly if you don’t have it. Perhaps a few hours is fine in the afternoon.

If I am having a picnic, I pack the hamper, blankets, make quiches, salads, take strawberries and cream. I'm not going to take a little bag of sandwiches out with me...not because I'm being snobbish, I genuinely wouldn't enjoy it. So then, I'm back to, I've brought a lovely spread for my side, and I let them sit and eat it while she and her DC look on with a sandwich. I think that's unpalatable for both parties. So I'd end up letting her and them tuck into ours.

See, I had sympathy for you up til this. Now you just sound snobby and spoilt. Hamper, strawberries and cream? Come on! I’d be there with my scotch eggs and tubs of home made pasta and that was at Ascot! Lifestyle incompatibility?! Fml, if she’s a friend you don’t want to lose, then try matching what she would do, why make her feel like shit?

Exactly @Cherrysoup

OP, you're not prepared to have the sort of outing that your friend can afford. You could sit on the grass with a cheese sandwich, some crisps and some squash like the vast majority of the population does and your kids would still have a great time. But you won't, because it's not good enough for you. Your sort of picnic would almost certainly make her uncomfortable, but it's the only thing you'd be prepared to consider.

Again, for most of this thread I was entirely on your side, but the disparity in your financial situation is such that I honestly don't see what she could afford to do in return for your largesse. And you're really just not getting that.

I've been her in the past. And even buying myself a single coffee wasn't an option, never mind two, or a round of ice creams. Her only option seems to be to say that she can't afford to join you at all. I've been in that position and I can't begin to tell you how awful that was.

I get it. Nobody likes to feel taken advantage of, and that is what she is doing by stepping back from the 'no, we aren't staying for lunch.' I would be so uncomfortable accepting hand outs time after time after time, whether you can afford it or not, I would avoid those situations and certainly not dictate 'no, let's go out' . You're absolutely right, bringing a flask of tea and a homemade cake costs nothing but shows some appreciation and thought.

The conversation/message you have prepared is entirely cringey though and given her reluctance to be open or honest so far, I don't believe it will go well. This is about more than money, she doesn't think considerately, so I don't imagine she will take being called out on that too favourably.

Ok Sara, give me your honest answer, as I feel you have more of an insight to what she encounters, and I don't get.

It's not that I'm snobby. I just like decent stuff. I like car boots too. Food, I really enjoy, so do my DC. So, yes, not because I'm Hyacinth Bucket, I will take (what I would call) a lovely picnic. Because if that's what I choose to bring as the alternative to buying her and her DC's food, that's my right.

So, on the basis that she will bring a few basic sandwiches, what is your take on this, if you were in her shoes.

Would you think

a) I'd honestly rather be eating that, and so would my DC, but it's not in our price range, and rather than Courtney pay for all of us again, I've covered my own families costs for a change, and both accept there is disparity.

b) be offended that I've brought something "better" for my family because you couldn't match it for your own family

c) expect my family to eat a limited selection things, which we wouldn't particularly enjoy, but that's ok because it makes you look equal

I wouldn’t give a shut what you ate. I would expect your family to be able to enjoy their individually boxed gourmet sandwiches whilst your friend has her basic butties. You could slip in a little sushi or a few crudités or whatever your lovely picnic needs without too much drama. Maybe share the luxury biscuits - if the trip is so blighted without the luxury food hamper spread all over a table cloth then she isn’t a friend and it’s pointless anyway because you don’t want to see her if it denies you a full gourmet dinning experience.

Lol. How misunderstood and patronising.

And as a couple of posters (who've grasped the bigger picture) have pointed out, picnics are not the solution. If you think they are, you have missed the root of the problem.

Why do you need slushies and snacks every time you meet up?
It wint do the kids any harm not to have them.
In your situation I would start by saying ' no Slushies today, we can have some pop when we get home ( or take some Capri Sun or whatever with you)
After a while of that being the normal I would start saying ' hi, ok, we are going to ( the beach, park, whatever) would you bring some crisps and sweets and I'll pack up some sandwiches for the kids' when you are making arrangements when to meet up.
Friend wont be spending a fortune and would only be spending the same as if she was feeding the children at home.

@notacooldad

We don't. Please read the thread.

I see you posted just before I posted saying that picnics arent the issue. I get that but the strategy I suggested could work in different situations. The pair if you are in a pattern that wont change until something makes that change happen.

After reading your latest updates, including the a,b,c options of what your friend should think about your picnic, I've started to think the two of you shouldn't be friends. This thread started as "my friend doesn't offer to chip in" to "my friend is so poor I can't understand her life".
Like a previous poster, I've been in this position before, where I couldn't afford a coffee, where I couldn't meet a friend because I couldn't afford the bus fare to get there. You can't imagine how difficult it is.
You've started to resent paying for her, she very obviously can't pay. Just go your separate ways.

It’s really not patronising. It’s easy - you either accept your friend says thanks but isn’t going to offer to pay or you change something. If you and your children can’t cope without a foodie lunch then meet after lunch or sod it as you aren’t arsed. You have googled her income, judge her poverty, dislike her passivity, haven’t been able to talk openly with her... it’s all weirdly difficult

I think op if you dont want to say anything to her.Maybe for teh next few times you meet,you just do it after lunch.And just take it from there

Why do you think it shouldn't niggle you, OP?

@WantToBeMum

"So then, I'm back to, I've brought a lovely spread for my side, and I let them sit and eat it while she and her DC look on with a sandwich. I think that's unpalatable for both parties. So I'd end up letting her and them tuck into ours." This is you creating a problem though. You are deciding it's unpalatable for them and projecting your own guilt onto the situation when they might be happy with their sandwiches. If you're going to stop spending £150 a month on her you have to allow her to be within her own budget. And if it turns out her budget is zero but you still want to spend time with her then you have to accept it and not swoop in to save the day.

I agree with this.

I think she's a CF, you can't tell me that she's that hard up that she can't even bring a box of juice cartons and some snacks for all the children occasionally ? A packet of biscuits or a cake once in a while ? She's a piss taker , we had one in our friendship group who was just take take take, we would try and organise free activities like the park with a picnic from home but she would turn up with nothing. We always like to do one paid activity a week during the holidays alongside free activities on other days and instead of just declining she would try and make us feel bad with comments like it's alright for some and how it wasn't fair on her children to keep missing out. You couldn't dare mention a weekend away , meal out or a holiday as she would get very jealous and make snide remarks . We did pay for her and her children a few times but she would come out without a single penny and not one word of thanks. She moved onto another group , then another ........

@Courtney555

Ok Sara, give me your honest answer, as I feel you have more of an insight to what she encounters, and I don't get.

It's not that I'm snobby. I just like decent stuff. I like car boots too. Food, I really enjoy, so do my DC. So, yes, not because I'm Hyacinth Bucket, I will take (what I would call) a lovely picnic. Because if that's what I choose to bring as the alternative to buying her and her DC's food, that's my right.

So, on the basis that she will bring a few basic sandwiches, what is your take on this, if you were in her shoes.

Would you think

a) I'd honestly rather be eating that, and so would my DC, but it's not in our price range, and rather than Courtney pay for all of us again, I've covered my own families costs for a change, and both accept there is disparity.

b) be offended that I've brought something "better" for my family because you couldn't match it for your own family

c) expect my family to eat a limited selection things, which we wouldn't particularly enjoy, but that's ok because it makes you look equal

d) Ugh. This is so awkward and uncomfortable.

I can see why she doesn't let you visit her house. If the thought of a cheese sandwich and some crisps makes you dig your heels in and insist on your hamper, I can't imagine how judged she'd feel about her Local Authority home and furnishings.

Op I think I would be resentful if she never offered to pay. My friend got coffees recently so I get it next time. Do u feel she waits for you to pay it? Its awkward if the habit has set. But yes does add up

@Courtney555

Ok Sara, give me your honest answer, as I feel you have more of an insight to what she encounters, and I don't get.

It's not that I'm snobby. I just like decent stuff. I like car boots too. Food, I really enjoy, so do my DC. So, yes, not because I'm Hyacinth Bucket, I will take (what I would call) a lovely picnic. Because if that's what I choose to bring as the alternative to buying her and her DC's food, that's my right.

So, on the basis that she will bring a few basic sandwiches, what is your take on this, if you were in her shoes.

Would you think

a) I'd honestly rather be eating that, and so would my DC, but it's not in our price range, and rather than Courtney pay for all of us again, I've covered my own families costs for a change, and both accept there is disparity.

b) be offended that I've brought something "better" for my family because you couldn't match it for your own family

c) expect my family to eat a limited selection things, which we wouldn't particularly enjoy, but that's ok because it makes you look equal

I would do c) not to pretend to be equal, but because sandwiches are fine & I wouldn’t want to rub my fancy spread in her face. I’m sure you guys would cope with a basic picnic every so often.

It seems like you don’t want to do the cheaper things yourself (which is fine btw) but if you want to spend time with someone who can’t afford nicer things but you won’t do the cheaper things then your only options are to pay for the nicer things or not see them.

OP could you ask her for some help with something that you know she is good at - don"t mean free labour or anything that will cost her money but just something that will give her self worth. Might be a good test to see how willing she is to reciprocate your goodwill? It would annoy me if l constantly paid for things but if she hasn't got the money, she can't help that. I would happily pay for a friend but not all the time.

Ive been in yiur shoes OP. I tackled it the following way.

1. Planned trips that did not need meals
2. Did the, I'll save the table while you get yours
3. If out all day I'd buy the first coffees then in the afternoon when we'd need a second brazen ot out with a suggestion for another coffee, then put my order in and say Ill grab the table
4. At lunch, breezily suggest we'll split the bill.

I hated doing it everytime and it felt forced but if I didnt I'd end up paying for all coffees. Lunches etc. The principal annoyef me, not the cost. Another dear froend suggested this was the price of that friendship as this person was amazing in every other way. However, I like parity and for my own sanity needed to change things.
Funnily enough we dont meet up so much (pre covid).

Perhaps she desperately wants her kids to get the odd slushie or ice cream, can't afford them, doesn't want to assume ("oh, I don't know...") But yes, hours you'll generously offer the treat to her kids that she can't afford. Either that or she hopes you'll just back her up:
Her: "oh, I don't know..."
You: "Jane's right, not today folks. Maybe next time"

Perhaps she's not sure what is most offensive, allowing you to buy or stopping you from having you're usual day out. She sounds slightly wet imo, but presumably you're ok with her personality since you're friends, so either back her up or treat her children without resentment. If she is a cheeky fucker, I suspect it's on behalf of her children and only because of her straightened circumstances