Who pays

[Courtney555]

If you were significantly better off than a really good friend, and it made no difference to you, whilst they were on a tight budget, would you always pay for coffees, (non extravagant) lunches etc.

I was going to put circumstances, then realised they were irrelevant as we are both nice, decent people, just one of us is really financially comfortable, and the other, for very genuine reasons, has very little money.

I love going out with her and our DC, we deliberately don't pick places with high entry fees (we both have children), but for example, if we go to the park, I'll buy everyone an ice-cream. If we meet for a Starbucks, I'll get the bill.

It's just kind of every time. And it's bugging me a little. She's not being entitled or a CF who could afford to pick up the whole bill herself. £20 I don't notice on a round of coffee and cake, is a tangible part of her weekly disposable income. I think there's an element that she knows it's negligible to me, so feels quite comfortable about it. And I don't begrudge it, I love her to bits, but when it's every time, I just think, once a month, she could say, "let's split it."

It's never anything over say £30, and I'd hate the thought of saying "shall we go halves" and her to feel obliged, then that was the money for her and DC dinner.

She's not a freeloader, truly, she's not. If it sounds like she is, it's my error in how I've worded this. I'm arguing internally, that, "£20/30 doesn't affect me, so what's the problem"...."but then 5 times a month, that's up to £150, which is a lot for her to be ok with accepting as treats"...."but the spend over a month doesn't affect me, so what's the problem"

So, AIBU. If we have a great time, as do our DC, and it's of immaterial consequence for me to pick up the tab for sundries, and very material for her, do I just keep doing it?

Or, just because it's immaterial, doesn't mean it's ok to keep doing it? Or more to the point, because it's a very material amount to her, should she be ok with accepting it on every occasion.

Myself and a family member have very different views here, would like to see general consensus.

(Quick clause, before this runs off on a stealth boast tangent, I hope people have the clarity to see this is not about being "significantly richer than yow" )

Your friend is ridiculous. My mum was broke when we were young- she started making lots more as we got older.
Anyway, she'd have told us before going out after the first time not to ask for anything and to decline offers of these slushies or whatever else. No way in hell would she let us eat out like that with someone else continually paying.
She knows exactly what she's doing.

I have a former friend who's broke as fuck and spends her money on unmentionables but even she wouldn't except someone buying her lunch all the time. She'd deffo let them pay for the kids because she could barely afford to feed them at home let alone when out, but she'd always say she wasn't hungry and she wouldn't let the extras lollies etc stand as they're non essentials.
She's complete CF and we aren't friends anymore.

Your friend has no shame. I've read all your updates and I know you don't want to let things fizzle but I think you really need to reconsider your standards. I also don't think she'll respond well to the message you've drafted, she seems a bit feeble and I expect she'll just feel sorry for herself.

No, she doesn't ever offer anything.

She doesn't really come round anymore, because she can't afford the petrol. We live about 45 mins from each other, so we tend to meet at least halfway or nearer her. I don't mind that at all. She used to come round before her hours got cut. She genuinely doesn't have the money.

I know she's not lying when she says she has nothing. I don't understand how she is always this level of broke. I googled what you'd get on UC, and as she/DC never seem to have anything new, and her rent would be covered, I can't see where it goes each month. It's not my business to ask, but I don't know why she doesn't ever have as little as a fiver to spare/contribute. There must be a reason though. I know she likes nice things. She wants her DC to have nice things. She's not depriving herself and her DC for giggles, when really she's got a healthy bank balance.

You’ve set a precedent now 🤷‍♀️

@NatashaAlianovaRomanova

You aren’t the friend because you don’t take the piss and pay for things in return, however small!

@Courtney555

Does she ever invite you to hers?

I was totally with you until the packet of sandwiches thing. I don't think I've ever changed my mind so quickly.

You're idea of picnic food with a mum friend and kids would be a massive treat in my family. And taking a packed lunch of sandwiches and drinks is still fun and a treat for us.

Basically you're not prepared to compromise on your experience when you're with her. You won't enjoy sandwiches, so you resent paying for her lunch instead.
You're not prepared to say no to your kids, so she has to be beholden to you.

What you're planning to say to her will make her feel shit. You could change this dynamic without telling her she's a cheapskate. But you're not prepared to compromise on your tastes.

I know she's not lying when she says she has nothing. I don't understand how she is always this level of broke. I googled what you'd get on UC, and as she/DC never seem to have anything new, and her rent would be covered, I can't see where it goes each month. It's not my business to ask, but I don't know why she doesn't ever have as little as a fiver to spare/contribute. There must be a reason though. I know she likes nice things. She wants her DC to have nice things. She's not depriving herself and her DC for giggles, when really she's got a healthy bank balance.

Now I'm cringing at what you're going to say to her. Why do you think her rent is covered? UC doesn't cover all the rent in many cases? She can't afford the petrol to visit you, so where she going to find the money for drinks, lunch or ice cream for you all? That's a lot now money than the petrol would be.

A lot MORE money, rather

I could have been you , I had an ex cf of a bf who whenever we got to the front of the queue his hands would magically become superglued into his pockets leaving me to pay , always . or he would somehow take a side step putting me before him and again I would ask , order and pay , I didn't even notice and this went on for some years until another friend was out with us and asked me why it was always me paying ? I then became more observant and saw the tricky little dance he would do to get me in front of him , eventually once on a long queue we made it very nearly to the front and I made the excuse I needed the loo desperately and off I trotted but on returning he had dropped out of the queue as " he didn't know what I wanted " when we eventually ' had it out ' in part of a much bigger row he snapped and said why shouldn't I pay as I earn more than him ? Nothing really can be done with that mindset other than find a new partner / friend .
I would say in your case , partly you have set a president that you pick up the tab but also she has been a cf and pushed you into this predicament. I personally would use Covid 19 somehow to both restrict your outings and your spending budget with her .

@crispysausagerolls no, since she moved, she's always come here. And now not at all since her hours got cut. Despite me saying all the time we can come over and just have a cuppa, we're happy to do the full journey, she always says let's go out. She's fairly recently moved (into local authority house, hence I know the rent is covered) and she tells me what an awful place it is and how she wishes she could get her old place back. I think she feels embarrassed by the property she's moved too. I hate that.

I think she should offer and pay occasionally out of politeness. If you've let it go on for a long time it's going to be difficult to say anything.

I don’t think you get poverty. She never has any cash because once you are behind and on a low income you never get ahead. The move will ah e cost money she didn’t have, anything that breaks, any debts, any shoes ... it’s relentless.

By all means redesign your meetings but the chat planned sounds excruciating - only so this if you don’t want to see her again. Maybe she does enjoy it, maybe she sometime look too closely at how you might feel am not sure that makes her cheeky necessarily - maybe just struggling.

Just once in a blue moon, it would be nice to have a kind gesture. Something really simple would absolutely be appreciated

For your sake, I was thinking much the same
You said she can't really afford to travel, so how about suggesting you bring the kids to her place for a get together and lunch? You could mention how good she is at cooking x, y or z and say how much you'd all love some

How do you think she'd react?

If she is genuinely short of money rather than just tightfisted, she cannot step up & pay for things from time to time can she. So if you don't want to keep paying, and I can see why people wouldn't, you have to adjust to what she can afford to do as she just can't afford to do the things you're doing now. I do agree that she shouldn't just accept or assume that you will always pay, maybe she feels as awkward as you do that you have settled into this pattern, maybe she's just cheeky.

I don't understand the Starbucks, the ice creams, the lunches out so often. I used to meet my friends with kids at playgrounds, parks etc & even if we didn't always have a full picnic we brought snacks & water bottles. If she's a good friend & you enjoy her company it shouldn't be too much of a hardship for you to take a cheese sandwich & an apple for your packed lunch once a month.

She's fairly recently moved (into local authority house, hence I know the rent is covered)

No. A local authority house DOESN'T mean the rent is covered!

What @QualityFeet said. You simply don't have the first idea of what life is like for someone in her situation. You don't even know the basics of having LA housing.

I beg you, PLEASE don't say what you're planning to say. The level of hurt you'll cause is out of proportion to the situation.

I don’t think you get poverty.

I probably don't. Honestly, I probably only have a 50% clue of how her life is.

I do know that whatever my situation, I'd find someway to make a nice gesture back. Gestures can be entirely free. You can gift your time, your knowledge, a talent you have.

I don't treat us all because I want something back. I just think it's basic manners to make a return token gesture once every few months, particularly if you are happy to accept that person's goodwill on a weekly basis.

Sara Clara she has told me herself she gets all her rent paid. And that's as much personal information I will say, just to indicate, I am not uninformed.

If I had a friend who was much poorer than me and buying lunch didn’t cause me any hardship, I’d be pleased to get my card out. She’ll know she’s worse off. She’ll not like being worse off but the boundaries are now set and so more comfortable because it’s understood you don’t mind paying.
Just think of it as her allowing you to feel good about your own generosity.

Lots of sensible advice here.

It clearly is bothering you.
Avoid buying stuff.
No one will die if they don't eat. And bring a thermos. That will break the habit, and maybe start a new one you both enjoy.

(-maybe she is only with you for the free coffee! )

Just think of it as her allowing you to feel good about your own generosity.

This is sort of how I see it. We both like to see the children enjoying themselves. Whether it's running around in the park, or sharing a pizza. We all benefit.

I just wish it didn't niggle me. It shouldn't. But it somehow does now.

It reads to me shes getting her kids involved now.Getting them to ask you.

She needs to understand if she doesnt have the money to go,she doesnt go.You have to tell her,the free ride is over.

I would really, really try to allow her to let you round to hers.

1. you could reassure her that her home Is lovely and you don’t care about it/boost her confidence around it and
2. you could start going there more And should “Contribute” by making tea/buying a pack of biscuits or something

I think any sort of conversation would be really awkward and probably kill the friendship stone dead. But then I'm conflict avoidant.

But I do think you need to change the scenario. Meet earlier, bring snacks. When it gets to lunchtime start saying No not today, we need to get on and do something. If she is a decent person she will realise what is happening and offer to bring the snacks next time or tell her DCs not to ask you to get them things.

To be honest if you are spending literally £150 on coffee and cake as a group it’s far too much. Do you actually spend as much as that £150?. You will have to maybe just meet once a month!
I think your friend is taking liberties because she should have some self awareness and if you know you don’t have much money I wouldn’t go out in the first place based on that I’m expecting my mate to foot the bill. It’s degrading.

Equally I have a very wealthy friend who spends a lot of money on us (will pay for the villa on a holiday for example). However it then gets awkward when she then expects us to pay for the meals out in return, as whilst these are a lot cheaper than the villa, they are still much more than we can afford). We’ve just stopped accepting her gestures now as they always come with a price tag that’s beyond our means.

Then why accept a huge thing like the villa rental in the first place? She must have known you couldn’t afford it, just don’t go.

If I am having a picnic, I pack the hamper, blankets, make quiches, salads, take strawberries and cream. I'm not going to take a little bag of sandwiches out with me...not because I'm being snobbish, I genuinely wouldn't enjoy it. So then, I'm back to, I've brought a lovely spread for my side, and I let them sit and eat it while she and her DC look on with a sandwich. I think that's unpalatable for both parties. So I'd end up letting her and them tuck into ours.

See, I had sympathy for you up til this. Now you just sound snobby and spoilt. Hamper, strawberries and cream? Come on! I’d be there with my scotch eggs and tubs of home made pasta and that was at Ascot! Lifestyle incompatibility?! Fml, if she’s a friend you don’t want to lose, then try matching what she would do, why make her feel like shit?