To think it’s dumb that international holidays are being encouraged in the middle of a pandemic

[Redolent]

AIBU to think is probably the part of the coronavirus pandemic that will lead to WTF reactions in future history books? A world clinging desperately to its globalized ways and unwilling to countenance altering them even in the midst of a crisis like this.

European countries have just gone through months of brutal economic and social lockdowns, with the goal of suppressing the virus. They’ve just experienced, at a huge cost, what it’s like to have the virus slowly and imperceptibly land within their borders via air travel.

And yet, just as the virus starts circulating at low levels, they all decide to open up their borders to each other again, in these supposedly safe ‘air corridors’. Enroute to their destinations, their citizens flock to public transport, then to busy airports and planes, where they sit for hours in the midst of other passengers, then on to their destinations, where they mix with other citizens coming in from all over the world too, in social and alcohol-fuelled conditions. In the meantime, governments - like the UK - have vowed that any outbreaks in other countries will mean that returning tourists may have to suddenly quarantine for two weeks upon their return home. It’s a panicked and volatile strategy, subject to a monitoring of the spread of the virus in multiple other countries. Of course it’s bound to go wrong.

TLDR: close the borders. Internationalism can wait.

RuddyP I thought most flights to the US were cancelled though ?

I get very confused because some flights still appear to be running even though FCO advice not to travel and 14 day quarantine allegedly in place.

rook yes additionally flights are still running from heavily infected countries, for example: Pakistan. These flights are considered 'essential' I guess, so are still running and are packed. But why I have no idea. We have had the pandemic in this country since March, anyone that needed to get home will have had plenty of opportunity by now.

Many of my friends have been back to their home countries, they did it before the quarantine started here in the UK. Every flight was full, no social distancing whatsoever.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/26/exclusive-half-uks-imported-covid-19-infections-pakistan/

If cases spike it will be managed as stranded people benefits no one

Of course it doesn't benefit anyone but it is exactly what happened in March plenty got stranded and governments had to send repatriation flights. Have you forgotten that? Have you forgotten all those stranded on cruise ships and in hotels in tenerife. The situation is still so volatile and decisions are made day to day by governments just not worth the risk imo. Plus I am not sure there would be much appetite for taxpayers money being spent repatriating people holidaying overseas during a pandemic

I don't think the UK will be sending any such flights this time around. Many were were caught out in March because they genuinely had no idea things were going downhill so fast, but no one can say this time around! We all know how bad it is now, if people choose to go away knowing full well what is happening that is their lookout.

Additionally those travelling now won't be fully insured either. It will give the rags and sky news plenty to report about stranded brits stories will run for months.

Yes, seriously. Your view of risk is bizarre. Plenty of people go to the cinema feeling a bit under the weather. It’s only too easy to tell yourself it’s probably not covid 19 when you’ll only be out for 3 hours and you don’t want to let the kids down or lose the £60 you spent on tickets just because of a little tiny temperature/sore throat/tickly cough when you are so close to home.

Some people might still go to the cinema but much fewer will do that as they aren't going to lose 1000s of pounds. You don't have to buy cinema tickets much in advance in advance and if you do it's only a few pounds per person. It doesn't compare with the cost of a holiday!.

@pigeon999 we will do whatever the government advises - and if they say we need to quarantine then that will be a deal breaker and we won't go. However, we are currently allowed to go shopping, to the beach, will shortly be allowed to go the cinema and stay in hotels and holiday parks etc without quarantining, so why would we voluntarily quarantine when doing less than this, and in a country with fewer cases than the UK? As it happens, we are both wfh and our DC are not at school/ in childcare and we are abiding by social distancing rules and plan to stay away from enclosed spaces for some time to come so present less of a risk than many others.

Well said whataclusterfuck. Otherwise we might as well quarantine every time we leave the house. Driving in a car to France carries no more risk than going to Primark or for a pub lunch.

Not so easy to behave like that when you think you might be quarantined in your country of destination at your own expense when you are caught with a temperature on arrival, only to go downhill rapidly and need hospitalisation overseas but not be covered for covid 19 on your insurance policy and not to have enough money to cover your extended stay.

Anyone choosing to go on holiday at the moment is risking that anyway. Even if they don't have symptoms before travelling they may have them once they get to the destination.

@pigeon999 - I have full insurance including pandemic and Covid. For those with the E111 card (or whatever it is now called) they will have health cover until the end of the year for EU countries.

what It sounds like you are mitigating the risks as much as you can, and that is fair enough. It is helpful you work from home and have the option to limit your interaction with others. Hopefully your children will be okay with not seeing friends for a few weeks afterwards.

France have 216 clusters of Covid, they are not free from the virus by any stretch, and it is a moving picture, things can change quickly. So even if you set off and it is fine, in less than a week things may look completely different. It sounds like you have considered all of this, and are still want to go. It is up to you

E111 only covers state hospitals only

E111 only covers state hospitals only

Yes, and (depending on the country) people may be required to make some payment towards their treatment.

I have the E111 in addition to full travel insurance.

@Parker231

I have the E111 in addition to full travel insurance.

E111 hasn’t existed for years.

I'd really caution people to read through their travel insurance line by line and ring them up to query the finer details, before assuming it will fully cover you.
The main reason we have postponed a planned Majorca trip in August- bearing in mind we're about 80% sure we had covid earlier this year and therefore unlikely to be catching or giving it to anyone - is worry about external factors such as track and trace preventing us from going, or local lockdowns either here or in Majorca.

I do agree with pigeon that government shouldn't be bearing the cost of repatriation for people choosing to fly at this point - although I have a huge amount of sympathy for those with trips booked way before this started - and many insurances wouldn't cover expensive flights to get back home if you're not going with a package .

I'm fairly ambivalent as to wether people fly abroad or not this summer from a covid-19 perspective as I'm less optimistic about the likelihood speed and rollout of any vaccine - I do hope I get away on my September city breaks - but just a note of caution around the possible financial impacts if people do decide to travel abroad.

@pigeon999 It’s a horrible place to be- we booked this holiday last year, before any of this happened. We were advised that if our flight provider was flying and we chose not to fly, we would lose our money.
This being despite Greece having a 24hr quarantine on arrival (in a state hotel), possibility of the hotel pool being closed (temp projected for the thirties!) all local business closed, uncertainty about how we would have mealtimes etc. Also, if anyone on the flight tested positive, the whole flight would be quarantined for 2 weeks. We were only going to be there for 7 days so we’d be paying for our own flights back after spending that two weeks isolated!

Still, there are far worse things going on in the world. Ultimately, there are thousands who have died and I’m aware this is very much a first world problem to be banging on about a holiday. We were lucky our flights were cancelled and we’ll be getting a refund, and I’m extremely happy I’m not being put between a rock and a hard place.

Somewhat ironically, I’ve been a camper my whole life and this holiday was because we wanted to do “something different.”

I’m sticking to me tent from now on.

I’m a bit worried as my mum has just booked a holiday in Greece in a month’s time !

E111 hasn’t existed for years

It's called the EHIC card and applies to UK citizens until the end of this year. The pp did say "whatever it is called now".

@pigeon999

Covid cases this last 7 days 6256
Previous 7 days 8433
7 days before that 9192
7 before that 11027

Cases are falling.

I didn't think it was daft to do it but I do now. Each country should ask their citizens to have 'stay vacations' to help their own economy. Let's see ow it goes next year and we could have defeated covid. I think schools and UK business need to open but as for going abroad - hmmm not me.

briar That does NOT sound like a holiday. Greece is absolutely boiling in mid summer, and there is no way we can do without a pool if we are outside for any length of time. Last year it was 40c plus and I love the sun, but it was unbearable on some days. The risks when pregnant are too high, stick to your tent at least you can easily head home if it isn't going well!! There is alot to be said for keeping things simple this year.

emmie Your mum is booking holidays now, that is interesting especially as many of the flights are being cancelled every single day. I am guessing she has been tempted by the price?
Our flight to Provence has just been cancelled and it is for the 27th of August how can BA know things still won't be better by then?! There seems to be a lot of information that isn't being shared with the public. Some airlines are cancelling flights that are profitable and always full, and are scheduled for the end of the summer and autumn.
Still at least it saved me having to cancel instead or incur charges. As we are obviously not going under any circumstances this summer.

livin I think the issue is that the infection rate is still 1000 a day, it has stayed at this rate for a very long time. My understanding is that the UK have flatlined in terms of the infection rate dropping. There is some concern that it may go up again. So if the infection rate stays at 1000 more or less every single day, it means there is still levels of community transmission. This can quickly gather momentum with the restaurants and pubs opening etc this weekend. We are not out of the woods at all.

If we were, we would see the infection rate drop substantially. Until that happens there is still 'potential' for a big outbreak again. Leicester is a good example. The death rate has definitely gone down, but again, if the infection rate goes up we will see the death rate follow suit.

Look at the states, they started reopening and yesterday 44,000 new infections again - horrendous.

I am not a covid expert, but a flatlining infection rate is not ideal

www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

So many flights are still landing from the US. We know loads of expat friends who have been or are there now. All you need to do when you get back is say you'll quarantine and the rest of the household doesn't need to so the whole thing is just a sham.

ruddy Yes we have had friends flying to and from NY, no restrictions of movement at all, and not as much as temperature control in the UK on arrival. Both have been to Florida and back, and that is a hot spot.
I have no words.

This nightmare is never ever going to end until we become really serious about the border control, and proper quarantine measures in place along the lines of Australia and NZ.

I had an email this morning up to 75% off hotels in NYC, I can't imagine why they're so cheap?