To think it’s dumb that international holidays are being encouraged in the middle of a pandemic

[Redolent]

AIBU to think is probably the part of the coronavirus pandemic that will lead to WTF reactions in future history books? A world clinging desperately to its globalized ways and unwilling to countenance altering them even in the midst of a crisis like this.

European countries have just gone through months of brutal economic and social lockdowns, with the goal of suppressing the virus. They’ve just experienced, at a huge cost, what it’s like to have the virus slowly and imperceptibly land within their borders via air travel.

And yet, just as the virus starts circulating at low levels, they all decide to open up their borders to each other again, in these supposedly safe ‘air corridors’. Enroute to their destinations, their citizens flock to public transport, then to busy airports and planes, where they sit for hours in the midst of other passengers, then on to their destinations, where they mix with other citizens coming in from all over the world too, in social and alcohol-fuelled conditions. In the meantime, governments - like the UK - have vowed that any outbreaks in other countries will mean that returning tourists may have to suddenly quarantine for two weeks upon their return home. It’s a panicked and volatile strategy, subject to a monitoring of the spread of the virus in multiple other countries. Of course it’s bound to go wrong.

TLDR: close the borders. Internationalism can wait.

Greece are not letting anyone from the UK visit

Until the 15th July.

Haris Theoharis has made it clear that he welcomes tourism from the UK. He has made this clear to both the UK and to Greece.

Greece are also on the list for travel corridors.

It’s a tough choice, but it may well be that keeping the borders closed is still the lesser of two evils in NZ. As compared to repeated lockdowns and the grim ‘new normal’.

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Telling reporters on Tuesday that she had heard “calls for our borders to be opened to the world”, the New Zealand prime minister referred to “a world where the virus is escalating not slowing and not even peaking in some countries yet, where cases exceed 10 million globally and deaths half a million, where countries are extending and returning to lockdown”.
“All of the while, we get to enjoy weekend sport, go to restaurants and bars, our workplaces are open, and we can gather in whatever numbers we like,” she said.

Greece have now banned flights until at least the 15th of July from the UK and Sweden. They may extend again after then depending on coronavirus numbers.
The lack of ventilators and ICU beds in Greece will be terrifying for them, if they end up with a huge CV surge thanks to non essential travel they will be in real trouble.

Greece are just coming out of a long period of austerity. They cannot afford to lose their tourist income this year; the emotional and economic cost for their people will be enormous. They are doing the right thing by taking it slowly. I hope they are able to recover some of the tourist season, for them, not for us. Life for many Greek people has been very hard for the last 10 years.

@Redolent

Brava to Jacinda Ardern... I totally agree with her stance and so do the many Kiwis I work with here. They were able to control the spread very quickly and they would be mad to let it back in. Friends tell me that the Kiwis also feel a responsibility to ensure the virus doesn't spread to the Pacific islands that would be totally unable to cope in terms of medical provisions.

The current advise is to avoid public transport if possible and yet we are allowing people to book flights? I think it’s crazy. A second wave will be full blown just in time for schools reopening in September.

Greece are just coming out of a long period of austerity

Yes stella we are all very aware of what Greece has been through economically, and it is 12 plus years not 10.

And that is why their medical infrastructure is so weak, why there are so few ventilators and ICU facilities. Some islands have none at all. They absolutely need the tourist trade, but I assume one that does not kill them! There are other people in the world with much lower infection rates that can visit Greece.

We have to be responsible - it is just not on that we take this virus to tiny islands where they have multi generational families living together, with very little in the way of medical support and infect them with Covid! It is outrageously selfish.

If you care for the Greek people at all you will stay away this year.

I hope the Greek government hold their nerve on this, or they will have far bigger problems to deal with than a downturn in tourism come the autumn.

I can't believe how many people have been flying around during lockdown, and the lack of any checks at UK airports or enforcement of quarantine. It all seems rather half-arsed.

Pigeon999 I have no plans to go to Greece. I have many Greek friends in the tourist industry and I care about them very much. It's for them to decide whether they want us there, not you or me.

pigeon999 - and exactly the same applies to people who think it’s OK to be travelling around the UK, spreading the virus from places that still have high rates of infection to places with lower rates, and places with lower numbers of hospital beds. Still, some people think it’s logical to argue going overseas is bad, but travelling around England is perfectly acceptable and necessary for the economy. People will do what they are allowed to do. They won’t be morally superior for doing it in the UK.

Yes and they have decided Stella and they have said no to British tourists, and good on them!

We go to Greece every single year, and always have done. We will go again when I can be sure it is safe for my family, and I can be sure it is safe for them. We are certainly not helping them by crippling their economy with a killer virus.

walk I live in a place of no infection and highly dependent on tourism. We are all worried here what is going to happen over the summer if we see a spike. I am comforted by the lower levels of infection. We will have to see what happens! I am pleased people will not fly to get here, therefore increasing the risk to themselves and us, nor travel through busy airports - they will simply come in their cars, bring their own food (I hope) and hopefully socially distance, and take care to be considerate.

At least we do have ICU beds and ventilators though, which is more than can be said for Greece!

Pigeon I think you're being unrealistic to think that people going on holiday will bring their own food. Some may, but many will shop in local shops, go to pubs and restaurants and enjoy local attractions. That's what people do on holiday, and at the moment, from next month, it's allowed.

stella Of course they will go out and do things! Why wouldn't they, they are on holiday! I am not worried about the infection rate here, and I am not worried about people coming on holiday here either.

I think there is a massive difference between going on holiday in the car that is a few hours away, and flying thousand of miles to somewhere with little in the way of health facilities. There is a world of difference.

For one if we go into a lockdown overnight like Leicester for instance, the holidaymakers can at least drive home again, they will not be stranded. If the same happens in Greece or France what happens then?

If you care for the Greek people at all you will stay away this year

I have friends who will lose everything. I mean absolutely everything. Have you any idea how many people lived in converted shipping containers on top of each other barely eating because the economy tanked. How many people, children included died unnecessarily. Poverty also kills but no one here gives much of a shit about that because you cant sneeze poverty onto someone.

Also I find the assertion that Greece is some kind of third world country insulting. Yes some islands are small with little infrastructure but there is infrastructure there. For example I have family on one island, tiny with no ICU beds however the next island has, they are well equipped and well staffed to take both islands (and another neighbouring two), because that's how it works. You dont have the facilities on every island but every island has the access to them.

Ha, ha. Good luck with that, pigeon! I’m not sure where you are imagining busy airports up from. I expect Greek people reliant on the tourist industry are hoping that people will be travelling through controlled, regularly fumigated spaces, submitting to coronavirus tests on arrival, and spending money when they arrive. What do we have without hope?

Livinlavida well said. I agree.

Poverty also kills but no one here gives much of a shit about that because you cant sneeze poverty onto someone.

And yet Greece have decided themselves that they don’t want Brits in for the moment.

livin There will be alot of people in the world that will lose everything due to covid, including people here in the UK.

I am glad you are acknowledging the lack of medical infrastructure in Greece, because it is a massive issue. If they get a big outbreak then the island hospitals will not cope, you must know that. We know Greece very well, we have friends that live there. It is a very difficult situation. A rock and a hard place so to speak. But other tourists can and should still visit from low risk areas, but I don't believe the UK is LOW risk, it is anything but.

We don't make things better for them by bringing Covid. We make things much much worse, they stand to lose family members, breadwinners, businesses and all the rest if a second wave hits them badly. I am very worried about it. They were only saved this time around because it was the winter, and no one was travelling anywhere, the may not be so lucky next time around.

pigeon999 - and, others have pointed out, Greece is the country to decide who to allow into Greece. If they decide to let British people in, it’s not your job to tell people it’s better for Greece that they don’t go there.

Greece has 191 deaths so far, it has been important to keep case infections very low to achieve it.

Here’s hoping they can swap travel with all the other low countries

We resigned to no holiday as house swapping. But swappers very keen and we can both drive there so we going now. Will both disinfect our houses and theirs is remote by a lake in country with much lower rate than us. Not sure I would fly but tbh we were trying to cut back for environmental reasons anyway

walkaround please keep up, Greece HAVE decided to keep brits out. Good on them, I support their decision entirely.

In Ireland we had 25 new cases yesterday it had been below 10 for a couple of weeks they said 25% of those new cases are due to foreign travel. Our chief medical officer was pleading on national tv for people to cancel their foreign travel plans and stay at home. We cancelled ours weeks ago but I know a few families still gung ho on travelling. Unless air travel is banned for non essential purposes people will still go. It is economics versus public health and it looks like economics is starting to win the battle

I think it’s mad too

We need to prioritise schools reopening not foreign travel