to think this person has had masses of white privilege

[raspran]

If a white male has grown up in a small house in a poor family (their words not mine) but went on buy their own home, get a good job with a large multinational and be sponsored through university and immigrate to the USA and get their green card then they can't claim not to have had any white privilege?
Yet they are saying that they have had no white privilege.

@caringcarer

If all whites have white privilege then why do white working class boys achieve less academically than BAME?

I have wondered the same thing. I think it has to do with the funding of the state schools. BAME are concentrated in London and the South. The further north you go, the whiter the population. State schools in London are the best funded and resources of all State schools. They also have local to them the good universities in London so can help students with admissions tips. In addition, living in London is not affordable for any working class student who is not from London. So working class, which has highest BAME % in country have more opportunity to go to a good state school and have a local university they can commute to. As you head north in the U.K., the state schools are funded much lower amounts. Far less than the cost of living differential accounts for. Students are much less likely to have a good state school locally and very rarely will have a good university within local commuting distance from home. (The biggest barrier to working class to go to university is not tuition, but rent/board in student housing). They’ve shown that regionally, the poorest areas with the worst outcomes for working class are rural and coastal areas. Areas which are highest % white.

So, white privilege still exists, but there is also a geographical privilege at play at affects whether anyone working class will have academic opportunities. If you’re working class and in London, you have privilege over working class in a rural/coastal village up north.

white working class boys will, on the whole, then go on to get work Etc easier than their Black equivalents

That statistic is deceiving at the top level. You have to dig into whythe numbers come out that way. For one, it counts everyone aged 16 to 67 So right there because more BAME are in higher education from ages 16-22 and as students are not in full time work, it shows a higher % white working class in work. The statistic should properly exclude the age group of traditional higher education students.

If you look at mid-20s onwards, there is no difference in being in work or not if you are a boy.

The BAME lower % in work is actually caused by white women versus BAME women.

Could I just say that in one junior school I had to remove my children from in a popular south coast town treated white boys with single mother's like shit. Really shit.

All the while being really careful to appear 'inclusive ' and 'anti racist'

White children from the poorest families very rarely achieve success in the work place. Fact. They don’t have the family support or financial capability to break away from poverty, and are therefore more likely to follow family members into the unemployment trap or minimum wage jobs. They are also treated worse by police officers due to background and expectancy that due to the area they live, and being uneducated, they are more likely to be guilty of a crime. So try telling a white boy living in the above conditions that he has any advantage over someone from BAME. He might not be judged on the colour of his skin, but will definitely be judged on everything else.

I sometimes wonder if the way my son was treated in junior school was do with the fact he looks like Eminem. ..

If all whites have white privilege then why do white working class boys achieve less academically than BAME?

Because there are also other types of privilege.

Specifically in relation to white working class boys, there is a long history of working class oppression in this country. That does not go away overnight, although since ww2 we have made a lot of progress. Then there has been the decline of industry and increase of unemployment since the 80s. Many areas still suffer from a hopelessness.
Black people in this country face problems due to racism and bias, but on the whole they haven't faced these particular issues. For an individual in the UK, I think I would prefer to be black girl with high achieving parents who support my education, than white boy with parents who don't value education.
We clearly have a long way to go with racism. With "class privilege", things are even worse, in the UK at least, in the sense that no one really even admits it's an issue. In theory it's possible to escape your class which makes people blame the white working class for their problems.
The issue is very complex and can't be summed up in one sentence!

@Pisspotical

White British people have a generally strong work ethic. Coupled with a capitalist mindset, they tend to be quite productive, thus making them attractive to employers. Eastern Europeans are exceptionally good workers. There will always be exceptions to these rules. These so-called “privileged” white people have worked very hard to achieve what they have in life. Very little in life is handed to you on a silver plate regardless of your skin colour. I suggest that certain groups may want to at least consider removing the tail between their legs and stop feeling sorry for themselves. Opportunity exists for all of you, if you are willing to put in a little effort.

Bordering on racist. Actually racist. The suggestion is clearly also ludicrous. Black peoples are not wandering around with their tails between their legs. They are beginning to shout very loudly that dying because of the colour of your skin, having your babies more likely to die and being subjected to degrading treatment by official bodies such as the police for no reason other than skin colour is unacceptable.

Interestingly that white ‘we are OK’ attitude has seen a very significant rise in far right, Nero-Nazi activity. The white supremacy groups are the biggest terrorist threat and have a strong desire to destabilise societal structure.

Yes, the difference in average hourly pay for all white at £11.87 versus all BAME at £11.82 (all classes) is negligible. BAME earn 99.58% of Whites. It’s nothing compared to gender pay gap!

Privilege based on skin colour actually has a very minor influence on your life chances in the U.K.

If you tell someone who has been fuck over so hard they don't which hole is which, that they still achieved all they did because of white privilege, they will quite understandably tell you too fuck off.

Racism exists, privilege exists, but it is NOT as simple as some people make out. But then again, of they looked into it properly, they couldn't use it to beat everyone down with it.

Privilege is a complex thing. So is racism.

Pisspotical. Having responded, I decided it was better to report your post as racist. I’ve asked for mine giving a response to your tragic comments to be removed too, as it provides your quote.

pisspotical tbh, I would say British white people really don’t have a strong work ethic. It used to be the case many years ago, but with a more generous benefit system and assistance, society has created people who will not consider jobs due to pay not really being significantly more than what they’re getting, to make working an attractive prospect. I guess the resolution to that is to increase the minimum wage, but not sure that’s going to happen in the current climate.

Yes, the difference in average hourly pay for all white at £11.87 versus all BAME at £11.82 (all classes) is negligible. BAME earn 99.58% of Whites

Do you think that that statistic is skewed by the fact that you are disregarding location, which is going to affect hourly wage?

What is the pay gap in London for example, where BAME people are much more likely to live?

It might well be that the poor average pay in the poorer regions of the UK (but where there are much less BAME people) is affecting that average.

BAME pay gap in London

unitelive.org/bame-ons-ethnic-pay-gap/

Ethnic pay gaps vary geographically as well, with the pay gap between BAME and white workers in London the widest, standing at a shocking 21.7 per cent.

@chomalungma

Yes, the difference in average hourly pay for all white at £11.87 versus all BAME at £11.82 (all classes) is negligible. BAME earn 99.58% of Whites

Do you think that that statistic is skewed by the fact that you are disregarding location, which is going to affect hourly wage?

What is the pay gap in London for example, where BAME people are much more likely to live?

It might well be that the poor average pay in the poorer regions of the UK (but where there are much less BAME people) is affecting that average.

Yes, there is higher pay in different geographical areas. Just like there is higher pay for middle/upper class compared to lower class. But when you look at those factors you are looking at geographical privilege and class privilege, not white privilege and not male privilege.

But when you look at those factors you are looking at geographical privilege and class privilege, not white privilege and not male privilege

So why do you think that there is a 20% difference between BAME pay in London compared to white people?

Here is the source ONS report
www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/work-pay-and-benefits/pay-and-income/average-hourly-pay/latest

@chomalungma

But when you look at those factors you are looking at geographical privilege and class privilege, not white privilege and not male privilege

So why do you think that there is a 20% difference between BAME pay in London compared to white people?

It can’t be white privilege because in London, Chinese workers earn 30% more and Indian workers earn 12% more than white workers.

If it were all down to white privilege, then whites would be earning the most of all.

Here is the source ONS report

And as I said, the pay gap gets skewed by geography.

So why is there a BAME pay gap of 20% in London - and that gets even worse if you break it down to different groups within that?

Unless certain groups, on average, have more opportunities and less barriers than others?

Just as it is for male and female privilege.
Class privilege

If it were all down to white privilege, then whites would be earning the most of all

Do you think certain ethnic groups face disadvantages at school, in education, in their experiences with society, in applying for jobs, experiences with the police, getting to university which affects their life chances?

So why is there a BAME pay gap of 20% in London - and that gets even worse if you break it down to different groups within that?

But it does not get worse if you break it down. What it shows is that white privilege cannot be the driving factor because the white people when ranked with other ethnicities are in the middle, not the top:
Chinese
Indian
White
Black
Pakistani/Bangladeshi

@chomalungma

If it were all down to white privilege, then whites would be earning the most of all

Do you think certain ethnic groups face disadvantages at school, in education, in their experiences with society, in applying for jobs, experiences with the police, getting to university which affects their life chances?

Yes. But it’s not the only privilege or disadvantage that is at play. The reality is much more complex and intersectional.

Yes. But it’s not the only privilege or disadvantage that is at play. The reality is much more complex and intersectiona

Of course.
Intersectionality.
With ethnicity being an issue.

ut it does not get worse if you break it down

It gets worse for a lot of people if you break it down. Some very wide pay gaps.

And as you said, intersectionality is a key factor.

I think the term "privilege", outside of academia, may be rather unhelpful on the whole because people will inevitably apply the common parlance meaning to the term. Hence the myriad explanations of how white people can't possibly have "white privilege" if they're also "underprivileged" on the whole.

This approach takes one word and applies multiple meanings to it - no wonder people fail to grasp it!

I personally like to describe "privilege" (in the sense of "white/male/etc. privilege") as "the option of generally not having to think about your skin colour/sex/etc. specifically" and I happen to think it does a better job of making the concept accessible.

Now, as it happens, I'm white. Actually, I'm "white for a white person", complete with light skin and hair and blue eyes. White privilege most certainly applies to me. But also, I don't really understand it on more than a theoretical level.

I do, however, understand male privilege exceedingly well, having graduated in a field that was, at the time, almost exclusively male and having gone on to work in it.

Male privilege is when you're in a conference room with 20 people inside. 19 of them are male. The remaining one is you. None of the 19 even notice and your boss expresses surprise at you even bringing it up afterwards and thinks you may have a bit of a bee in your bonnet. You're actually the second most senior person in the room. You're also the main speaker. You're certainly not "underprivileged" compared to the rest of the room in any general sense. But you very much are different in one particular aspect. And, unlike everyone else present, you don't have the luxury of just not noticing.

Unlike the rest of them, you got up that morning and considered what to wear: trouser suit to look more like everyone else? But physical attractiveness plays a bigger part in your success or failure than it does in theirs? Curve-hugging shift dress, then? But it'll run the risk of them seeing more woman than professional and undermining your standing! Makeup? If so, how much? Does red lipstick stand for "vixen" or for "I have the confidence to pull this off?" Heels, so that you're not by far the shortest? Or flats, in which you'll be more comfortable and it'll show in your posture - but also everyone will, literally, be talking down to you?

Meanwhile, your boss got up that morning and put one any of the suits in his wardrobe. Later, he'll nonchalantly tell you that you, too, should invest in five identical suits and just how practical this is. That's male privilege!

I imagine white privilege must work much the same from the perspective of those who don't have it.

As stated, I'm white. But i believe others when they tell me about their experiences. The not needing to give it any thought part is precisely what privilege consists of. So, no, of course we don't get white privilege. We can try and empathise and make it relatable by comparing to something we do know. Male privilege for me. It may be a bit similar - but never quite the same. That doesn't mean it's not real.

But, again, the terminology is rather unhelpful.