to think this person has had masses of white privilege

[raspran]

If a white male has grown up in a small house in a poor family (their words not mine) but went on buy their own home, get a good job with a large multinational and be sponsored through university and immigrate to the USA and get their green card then they can't claim not to have had any white privilege?
Yet they are saying that they have had no white privilege.

What is the point of this? To guilt trip white people? What do you actually want?

To end racism by proving that a group of people exist whose skin pigmentation means they cannot be anything other than racist. Their denial of racism is proof beyond doubt that they are, in fact, racist.

It’s better know as ‘she’s a witch, burn her’.

... so much for why (see my first post upthread) I generally think that the term "privilege" to describe something demonstrably real and harmful is not a helpful choice.

Again, "having X privilege" doesn't actually mean the same as "being privileged".

"Having X privilege", basically, boils down to "even if you happen to be the most underprivileged person on the planet - X probably has nothing to do with it". And, usually this is because - on a class level, which says nothing at all about particular individuals - people who have/are X tend to do better than people who don't/aren't, all other things being equal.

So, yes, white working class men have white privilege. And male privilege, for that matter, being men. Nothing about this says that they can't, on the whole, still be desperately underprivileged. They obviously can. It's just that this is not because they're white or because they're male but despite. The because in these cases, can pretty uncontroversially be tied to socioeconomic factors.

And, no, having X privilege doesn't make you racist/sexist/homobhobic/anti-non-X by default. It does, arguably, make it a bit harder for you to see how being non-X affects other people's lives and how things you find perfectly normal put others at a disadvantage.

Again, "X privilege" basically boils down to "not having to give too much thought to havibg/being X outside some very specific situations".

For example, I personally never realised how easy post 9/11 air travel was for people with WASP-y sounding names like mine until I travelled to Israel for work with a colleague who had a decidedly Arabic sounding first name and got to "enjoy" the full security risk treatment on account of having been on the same flight booking.

Does this make me personally responsible for the plight of every completely innocent person who regularly gets strip searched at airports? No, of course not! Is it morally reprehensible for me to be called "Jane Bloggs" and should I change my name to "Huda Al-Masri" by deed poll for ethical reasons? Don't be silly! But also: yes, having witnessed this does mean I should recognise that there are things which are not quite as easy for my colleague as they are for me - despite us both being in the same, well paid profession and both, on the whole, privileged. And maybe, just maybe, if I get the opportunity, it would be the kind and decent thing for me to try and help change things in such a way that the Ahmeds and Samiras of this world have as easy a time attending an industry conference as the Nigels and Sarahs.

I wonder about this assumption that a white kid out of poverty isn't looked down on for his skin colour in the same way an equivalent black kid out of poverty is.

In my experience seeing when people see a poor white kid with the wrong accent and wrong education and wrong clothes and wrong manners, they aren't just looking at those things when they dismiss him. They are absolutely thinking this is poor white trash, and that is as bad as poor black trash, and some people, not an insignificant number, think it's worse.

Race s just too blunt to be very useful in looking at this stuff at a fine level, and it's not just about "intersectionality" where other factors also play into it. People's perception of who you are doesn't separate out these elements and grade them in some logical way. It's about the whole package.

No, I'm not on FB Devlesko, I don't trust it. Every now and then I scroll through on a siblings account but I usually end up hearing of things just through other people or the main websites.

Not suprised to hear about entry being refused all, nothing will get done about it really. We live in a country that denies us human rights, where police can evict families and force them onto the roads during a pandemic even when they the family have the illness!

No one gives a damn though.

I went to a mostly white working class school with relatively low standards. A few did well, most didn't. When I read about how white boys are falling behind, I think about my experiences at that school.

Which by and large were that being studious was a thing to be mocked. This was despite the best efforts of the teachers who gave us every encouragement.

So when I am told that white working class people are underprivileged I remain sceptical. In the case of my schoolmates, the main problem wasn't any sort if lack of privilege, it was simple laziness and bad attitude.

The danger with discussions like these is that they become unbalanced and give the impression that having a work ethic is meaningless.

I think people need to realise that racism will never go away, we cannot get rid of it, we can however somewhat mitigate the effects of it. And that's really not by telling people that they wouldn't have x if it weren't for their skin colour....

Today if a white man and a black man enter custody the chances of a white man dying in police custody is much higher. A fact BLM don't mention to you.

Black men make up 3% of the male population but make up 37% of the England national team

Black (African) students do much better at school than white British and significantly better again than Afro-Carribean students (who are also black)

White privilege is a very iffy (probably not real) and used in a way that is overtly racist especially on here.

Asian (actually chinese/indian and asian other) people do very well have a good work ethic and a strong family unit therefore they outperform on average both black and white british groups. They dont get arrested earn more and are more successful at school. Plus they don't complain as much.

Devlesko and wizard and I ask from a good place but I am from a racing family. When the big races are on and the travellers come, are they not really true GRT?

cattasaurus well said. All these ‘theories’ are, at best, pseudo-science dressed up as science and should be treated with an appropriate degree of scepticism.

They are absolutely thinking this is poor white trash, and that is as bad as poor black trash, and some people, not an insignificant number, think it's worse.

Agreed, but: "black trash", unlike "white trash" is not a common (albeit horrible, classist and derogatory) phrase.

That would be because for whites, not being "trash" is considered default, and a higher level of education, "culturedness" and socioeconimic standing is expected.

Not being any of these things is outside of the perceived norm for this particular ethnic group to an extent that their whiteness is worth explicitely mentioning.

The same is not true for, say, an Afro-Caribbean or Bangladeshi child with similar characteristics. In fact, some people would be downright surprised to hear such a child say something along the lines of "I rather fancy bruschetta for lunch today" in perfect RP.

That's basically the entire point in a nutshell right there.

Exactly it Tompinch don't be a boffin mantra, be a class clown

Let’s discuss male-privilege?

What do you mean OhTheRoses?

Are you watching BBC news at the moment in India, horrendous

I have often wondered whether “Identity Politics” is a healthy thing.

Does drawing attention to our differences actually encourage people to think of “them and us”, and does that encourage racism rather than discourage it?

Or is the current discourse a painful but necessary step on the road to a truly equal society?

I have more questions than answers, I think.

I also think that as a white (albeit non-British heritage) person, I probably have a duty to ask and listen rather than simply state a point of view...

Or is the current discourse a painful but necessary step on the road to a truly equal society?

No, it really isn’t. If anyone thinks that their type of ‘discourse’ is in any way helpful then they’re seriously deluded.