to think this person has had masses of white privilege

[raspran]

If a white male has grown up in a small house in a poor family (their words not mine) but went on buy their own home, get a good job with a large multinational and be sponsored through university and immigrate to the USA and get their green card then they can't claim not to have had any white privilege?
Yet they are saying that they have had no white privilege.

@PhoneLock

I looked up immigration to the US in 2016 (latest year I could find) and there were c. 43 million immigrants living in the USA of which 4.2 million were described as "black" by Pew Research.

How many non-whites tried to get in and were turned away?

I don't know, I was looking at USCIS for stats and couldn't find any.

Your analogue assumes (wrongly) that all white people start off at the same level. this is just untrue

I didn’t explain that very well, but I meant that I had had a small success getting a few men to grasp male privilege by way of that analogy. By NOT using the word privilege, but using something they instinctively understood. They had all experienced that moment in a game where you think you are playing on easy, but have accidentally switched to hard, and although it looks like the exact same game, they were just failing to get Anywhere,and couldn’t quite work out why.

That’s what their privilege looked like. At any decision point/ battle scene etc, it was just slightly easier for various hard to pinpoint reasons. And that cumulative effect means that you can finish the game. Or not.

The analogy fails on its arse if you try to apply anything deeper than that. I mentioned it more to show how people with privilege can get very defensive and hostile if you suggest they have a privilege but there can be other ways to explain it.

We are all playing the same game, as it were, but not everyone is playing the exact same version. And if you don’t don’t realise you are one of those people playing an easier version, through an accident of birth, then it can be hard to grasp why someone else who looks as successful as you has actually had it much harder.

I don't believe Travellers and Gypsies have white privilege, the people who say we do tend not to know anything about GRT issues at all.

@Wizadorawobble

I don't believe Travellers and Gypsies have white privilege, the people who say we do tend not to know anything about GRT issues at all.

I agree, I did 12 months of research into GRT issues as part of my post grad study.

I grew up in a travellor area (where the elderly retired or where a lot of them lived for the winter). Nobody could tell who they were. They weren’t the ones being spat at for being a p I was.

I would guess you are white only because it's mainly white people I know harping on about white privilege. My instagram is filled with white people posting about racism and black people getting on with their lives.

I would like to know though how travellers/Gypsies who are white or pass as white don't have white privilege?

@GrumpyHoonMain

I grew up in a travellor area (where the elderly retired or where a lot of them lived for the winter). Nobody could tell who they were. They weren’t the ones being spat at for being a p** I was.

It's fairly obvious when they live in a distinct area in specific GRT housing.

NOT THIS AGAIN!!!!! @Mumsnet need to sort out the racism and ignorance on this site! FFS!!

White privilege exists and if you're white you've benefitted. Now go and educate yourself before posting another stupid question.

So a white male who grew up poo has white privilege but white travellers do not? I think you need to pick a lane.

They weren’t the ones being spat at for being a p I was.

No, we're the ones who are called pikey, gypo etc

I would like to know though how travellers/Gypsies who are white or pass as white don't have white privilege?

Do you believe GRT suffer systemic racism?

I grew up in a travellor area (where the elderly retired or where a lot of them lived for the winter). Nobody could tell who they were. They weren’t the ones being spat at for being a p** I was.

Quite. If a traveller applies for a job, no-one's going to turn them away unless they write 'traveller' on the application form.

If some knuckle-dragger's looking to give someone a kicking because of where they're from, then a BAME person is far more likely to be in the firing line, for obvious reasons.

The traveller may be disadvantaged in other ways because of their background, and may have less privilege in aggregate than any particular BAME person. But they still have white privilege.

Quite. If a traveller applies for a job, no-one's going to turn them away unless they write 'traveller' on the application form

Yet our employment rate is far, far below that of any other BAME group.

I read on one of these other threads that white privilege means - you may have 99 problems but your race isn't one. It's a simple way of understanding it but effective imo

He also has male privilege.

Yet our employment rate is far, far below that of any other BAME group.

Why do you think that is, wizardorawobble? I've interviewed and later employed two people from traveller backgrounds and in neither case did have I have a clue that was the case until months after they started.

I haven't got it in for travellers btw - I'm asking because I'm interested.
I used to live on a road with a permanent camp at the end, and they were all lovely (in contrast with some of the others on the street).

@AirJordans

NOT THIS AGAIN!!!!! @Mumsnet need to sort out the racism and ignorance on this site! FFS!!

^^This.

It will end up like all the other threads. Into a BLM bashing and racial hatred thread.

White privilege is essentially a different term for basic human rights. The ability to live the life you choose without the colour of your skin being a factor.

I don't think we should be using 'white privilege' as a stick to beat white people with, and I am sick of these threads.

Black people should have the same human rights and treatment as white people, that's what the root of the matter is.

Not this again.

So white people are more likely to die in police custody once arrested they account for 70% of arrests yet they account for 85 % of deaths in UK custody despite black people making up 10% of arrests they only account for 8% of deaths. They achieve less at school and have poorer educational outcomes worse than even black africans and earn less than average.

That is some privilege and not in a good way.

Perhaps both Black and white British groups should aim to emulate their Chinese and Asian counterparts who earn more are better educated and are less likely to get arrested. All these are hard facts taken from the ONS website. Also the football team for England mens at the last world cup consisted of 37% black players despite only accounting for 3% of the population again that is incredible mathematically. But I'm not complaining i dont expect everything to be in proportion to the population my sector of work isn't 85% white (it's much less). So i'm pretty confused what this privilege is.

Does the USA routinely welcome black immigrants ?

Sounds like a strange barometer for 'privilege' but since you've chosen it, maybe you should do your own research? And find out if - controlling for factors such as education, financial status, home country's relationship with the US etc - black people's immigration applications are statistically more likely to be refused than white people's.

Have you done that research? Or are you just making assumptions?

Can't we just stop? Why is there a need to add a persons skin colour into everything?

Because of the Americanisation of public discourse in countries whose history and society are very different.

The concept of "privilege" is useful for class analysis, but as soon as you start saying to a specific individual that they've achieved what they have due to having privilege then it just falls apart - it gets people's back up as it immediately comes across as saying that they don't really deserve what they have achieved.

In the case of the person OP describes, even if white privilege didn't exist they may still have achieved exactly what they did. You can't take it to the level of a specific individual like this IMO.

Surely it’s impossible to tell unless a black person, at the same time and in pretty much identical circumstances, tried to achieve the same goals. You could otherwise say absolutely anything that anyone achieves is due to their race/sex etc.

Why do you think that is, wizardorawobble? I've interviewed and later employed two people from traveller backgrounds and in neither case did have I have a clue that was the case until months after they started

Well interviewed tend to see your CV and ask why there are schools/colleges and little jobs on it from all over the place, certain words we use and accents, the "tell me about yourself" questions, the fact that we are not culturally the same seems to come across somehow etc.
When we do get employed it's often the case that we'll be fired as soon as it's realised that we are Travellers.

Some might say that because we could just completely deny/hide ourselves that we are privileged in employment. I think that's a very, very dangerous train of thought when you consider the genocide and ethnic cleansing that GRT have faced.

It makes much more sense as white advantage, the advantage that comes with not having to deal wíth racism.

Surely it's just this: Would it have been harder to do all that if circumstances were exactly the same apart from the fact you had black skin?

And yes, as PP said, if he was a woman?

If he genuinely can't see the 'privilege' he has then I'd give up.