Mr and Mrs his initial surname 🤬

[ottermadness]

I just hate it, I’m not a Mrs and I have a name.

It’s nice that people remember to send anniversary cards though so I’m not going to be impolite.

AIBU that this gives me rage!?

Not RTFT but YABU OP.

I hate this too. There are other options, are there not? For example - Mr and Mrs Surname; or his first name and my first name, surname. Both those are fine.

What really makes me angry is something addressed just to ME calling me Mrs His initial Surname; or even worse, Mrs HIS NAME Surname. My MiL does it and so did the kids' school until I asked them not to. My name is not Richard!

I gave moaned on MN before tho and been told it's my fault because I changed my surname when we married. Pretty sure my first name is still Arabella tho!

(not our real names)

Don’t care at all. My mum does it when she sends cards to my husband and me!

That’s a sobering perspective @SkepticalCat, I’m sorry that is happening to your friends mum. Dementia is so cruel.

Sorry but you can kill any thread with this argument. 'My husband leaves his socks on the floor instead of laundry basket' 'Oh I wish I still had a husband who would do that..'
Still annoying.

actually makes me feel icky to imagine being Mrs his name. That's his mum's name

It’s not though, is it? Her birth name was something else entirely. The person who was absolutely chuffed by my not changing my name was my dad. I’m the last one standing now and it dies out with me.

It is shit that we even have to have this debate. And maiden name is a revolting term.

Your name it your name, the one you were given at birth by interested parties. If you want to change it, do so, irrespective of your marital status. Just do it. You can change your name literally today to whatever you like, within the laws of the land. The vast majority of people I suspect will keep their given name throughout their lives. They do not become a part of another persons name. It is not necessary, desirable or particularly practical. This obsession with what is correct is ridiculous. The correct name is someone actual name.

Chankly Bore and Edward Lear
The Sieve
The Sea

Yes, I take your point @G5000. I dont think @ottermadness is being unreasonable at all.

I've been thinking about my friend's mum a lot recently, including the way she addressed her cards to me, so my thoughts were not prompted by this thread. She had absolutely no malicious or underhand intent in addressing her cards the way she did and I suppose I've been feeling a bit guilty for getting the rage about it.

Sorry, I'll stop the derail now!

ChanklyBore
did you miss the part where many women are very happy to change their family name to their husband's?

what's wrong with that?

Dobby your dad's name didn't die out.....your name did

This is how indoctrinated some are. They can't even see it

JaniceWebster

Until they are matched by an equal number of men proud to change their family name to their wife’s, there is a lot wrong with that.

Plus, did you miss the part where i said..

Your name is your name.... If you want to change it, do so.

Until they are matched by an equal number of men proud to change their family name to their wife’s, there is a lot wrong with that.

Why? I don't need to be in the majority to justify any of my choices or to make them right.

As long as men CAN if they wish, and women can DECIDE... who cares.

I find it really sad to think that the Mr and Mrs tradition could die out because of some barmy femanisn. I'm in my late 30's not a dinosaur but I cause tradition. I'm financially independent,I'm me with my hobbies, interests and personality. But I'm also Mrs X because I'm proud to be recognised as my husband's wife. It feels complete for the family to all have the same name.

I think we have evolved enough that we can lose that chip from our shoulder and be a Mrs XYZ without any threat or attack against our identity or independence
should we wish to be a Mrs XYZ of course...

Yes, I was happy to take my husband’s name and if felt like a positive and natural thing to do.

The irony on these threads that some people just can’t grasp, is that unless you inherited your name from your mother, you do in fact have a name that has been given to you via a patriarchal line. Yes it’s “your” name. We get that, Thankyou. But why that particular name? Oh, because of your father, his father, his father and so on. This is how generations are traced. Who knew?

So yes, if, as a woman, you pass on your name to your DC then you have broken the male chain. But until you do that, it’s nonsense to claim that your name is any less patriarchal than a woman taking her husband’s name. It’s exactly the same tradition fgs - just the other end of it.

Even more bizarre, are those who keep their own name because of “feminism,” but then give their kids the DH’s name

Now on the “Mrs H’s initial” business, you don’t see that much anymore to be fair. I was taught to address letters like this, but I hardly ever do. Most things are email these days anyway.

It doesn't bother me if it's by older people. That's they way it was taught, it's not malicious.

@Malbecblooms Would your husband have been willing to change his last name to yours? If not, then why not? He’s presumably just as proud to be your husband as you are to be his wife.

It feels complete to you to have the same last name. A lot of us really don’t care. And a lot of us have no interest in ever being referred to as ‘Mrs’. We are not of the opinion that loving our husbands requires a change of identity on our part. If that’s what you’ve chosen to do, then that’s your right. It doesn’t make us barmy. And if there’s enough of us that the entire tradition eventually dies out, then that’s not sad, that’s people wanting different things to you and socio-cultural norms evolving to suit those wants.

@looluu It really doesn’t matter where a woman’s last name comes from - either parent, flight of fancy deed poll, whatever. What matters is that it is her last name, and it is her last name to exactly the same extent as a man’s last name is his last name. If a woman keeps her last name upon marriage, she is keeping HER name, to the full extent a man is keeping his. Should a woman pass her last name onto her child, she is passing HER last name on. This has nothing to do with where it came from.

I do not have the same last name as my father. I do not have the same last name as my partner. And I do not have the same last name as my children. I just have my name.

Equality is generally regarded as a good thing. The expectations surrounding this issue are unequal based on sex. I wouldn’t want that in a marriage. But even if you choose to opt out of this system, as a woman you are subjected to questioning about your choices, again and again, in a way that a man never is.

But I’ll hold my hands up and admit I’m a barmy feminist. Perhaps I should change my name to that. It has a certain ring to it (pun intended, I’m afraid).

And if there’s enough of us that the entire tradition eventually dies out, then that’s not sad

actually, unless it's a unanimous vote, you think it would be right to completely ignore and disregard others just because you don't share their preferences... THAT is what I have a problem with and that's what I would fight.

Other people wanting different things doesn't give them the right to deny us.

@JaniceWebster I think you’ll find that I have stated multiple times that your choices are entirely your own. I’m not the one calling people names because I disagree with their choices. And I’m unclear as to where or how in life you have been ignored or disregarded because your title of choice is ‘Mrs’.

Nobody is denying you anything, nor does anyone propose to. If the name change upon marriage and concept of ‘Mrs’ die out, it will be because women stop doing it. There is no vote required, just people doing as they choose.

All the proud wives, are your husbands not proud of you, or do they ask other people to address them as Mr Jane Bloggs?

Bugg - I have to disagree. Yes the name a woman is born with is HER name. I am not disputing this. What other name does she have?

But, unless it came from her mother or was a totally new / made-up name, it is still a patriarchal name.

There are no two ways about it. You have that particular name for an obvious reason. That reason is your father and probably many, many men before him.

So a girl / woman’s HER name, yes. But don’t deny the reality of why you have that particular name, or where it came from. That is deluded.

As I said, if you go in to give your children this name, then their name will not be patriarchal because it came from you - a woman.

So whether they get their mother’s name or their father’s name, it’s THEIR name in the sense it’s what they identify with. Of course it is. But the point is, did it come from a man or a woman?

If it came from a man (as most do), what difference does it make if this man was your father or your husband? At least with your husband you had a choice and it wasn’t “default patriarchy” that brought about your name without you having any say.

@looluu I think you’ve missed my point. I’m not saying that the origins of (most) women’s names aren’t patriarchal. I’m saying it doesn’t matter if they are. They’re our last names and most people (of any gender) get no say in that.

However, I am not attempting to time travel and undo generations of patriarchal constructs. I live in the now, this is my life and I’m saying my last name, which I grew up with and will have until I die, is exactly as much my name as my husband’s. Our last names have the exact same amount of validity and permanence. There is no reason to default to one or the other and decide it is the family last name. When we have children, there is similarly no reason to default.

@eaglejulesk
Wouldn't bother me in the slightest. Clearly I'm in the minority

I agree with you, couldn't care less - what the hell does it matter, there are far more important things to stress about in life

The perpetually offended walk among us!

Exactly. So many threads on here about trifling nonsense, so utterly tedious. Some women are so on the edge, desperate for something to be livid about They must be such hard work to be around, always treading on eggshells. They need to get a hobby or something so that they don’t have time for such pointless waffle.

Well if it doesn’t matter whether your birth name is patriarchal or not, why should it matter if you take your husband’s name or not?

Is it not just replacing “default patriarchy” with another name that comes to you via patriarchy - but at least you chose it?