To ask what you think about being expected to take husband's last name

[DisaK]

Long time MNetter

I'd like to ask what other MNetters think about men who expect their wives to take their last name when they get married and are very pushy about it.

Of course I know for some wives who really don't like their own surname or much prefer their DP's, there might be no issue at all.

What I'd like to know is what you think of men who are very adamant that women should take their name when they get married.

Did your DH not consider changing his name to yours? Why was it better you changed yours?

The bit I don't get is the women who proudly stand up and proclaim that they have taken their husband's surname because they "love him and are proud of him". So if that is the criterion, doesn't that mean their husbands don't love them and feel proud of them? Is loving and feeling proud a specifically female function?

I do admit that I added my dh's name hyphenated, but that was because I thought it would be handy to sometimes be able to pass under the radar and not advertise my foreign identity. Also really handy when ringing for a taxi to have a name that is easily pronounced.

However, if he had been adamant about anything that was to do with my identity, I would certainly have had second thoughts about marrying him at all. As far as I remember he asked "what do you think we should do?"

Princess - if people have a different perspective to you, it’s not “pontificating.” It’s a discussion.

I just don’t think women should mock other women’s relationships or call them “thick.” All relationships are personal and each to their own.

Re- your point above, I think what pps were talking about was the increasingly common situation these days in which men don’t seem to care too much whether their wife takes their name or not. It’s when children come along, that it can become an issue as they assume the DC will have their name - and in many cases this seems to be what happens.

Many years ago, I spent time in a part of the world that is extremely patriarchal and difficult for women - eg they aren’t allowed out the house without a male. When they marry, it’s arranged and they’ve never met the husband anyway. But they don’t take his name. This is because you are seen as a member of your father’s tribe / line for life. When you have children, they take their father’s name and, if he chooses to throw you out, the children are automatically his, not only in name but legally. As a woman, you have no redress to seek custody of your own children. It could be as if you never existed in that family.

So, there’s different perspectives on these things. I realise this is an extreme example, of course. But couples relate to each other in a whole myriad of ways and just because they may seem traditional in one sense, it doesn’t mean this extends to every area of their lives. And even if it does, it’s nobody’s business if they’re happy like that.

People having a different perspective to me isn't the thing that makes them pontificating, no. That's why I didn't say it did. And you'd be better addressing your objections to the use of the term thick to whoever said it.

As for the rest, couples do relate to each other in different ways etc but there really isn't any way round the reality that the behaviour OP describes is controlling and chauvinistic. This isn't affected by the existence of other forms of controlling and chauvinistic behaviour, women who wanted to change their name and thus are in totally different situations to that described by OP or anything else people have muddied the waters with.

I didn't do it because it seemed pointless admin, the very definition of wifework.

if your mate really can't do better than this controlling arsehole (3 billion men on the planet?) then he needs to do all the wifework of the name change.

I think it’s for every individual to weigh up how they feel about this kind of thing. Obviously, if the friend of the OP isn’t comfortable about changing her name, she needs to stick to her guns. Don’t do it OP’s friend! She’s an adult and can make up her own mind in the context of her own relationship, as with any other aspect of life. Only she knows the wider picture. Who exactly is putting pressure on her anyway because the OP doesn’t say?

She says she's asking about men who are adamant their wives should take their name when they get married and are pushy about it, so presumably them.

I was buying something online recently and the fields only allowed me to pick Mr or Ms so I made the purchase elsewhere. Why do you feel only women should have to declare their marital status but not men? Personally I prefer Mr and Ms as then we're not putting value on women based on their maritas status are we.

In future I'm only going to give my custom to companies who'll allow me to style myself Reverend Professor.

@WaterOffADucksCrack

I was buying something online recently and the fields only allowed me to pick Mr or Ms so I made the purchase elsewhere. Why do you feel only women should have to declare their marital status but not men? Personally I prefer Mr and Ms as then we're not putting value on women based on their maritas status are we.

I don’t HAVE to declare my marital status.... I WANT to be addressed as Mrs! If I was a doctor I would WANT to addressed as such, if I was a Dame I would WANT to be addressed as such.... the company I was referring to decided that I couldn’t have my delivery addressed to ME so I ordered from a company who were willing to let me choose my form of address. I wouldn’t have minded if I’d been allowed to leave the title blank and just have it delivered to Susan Outing but that wasn’t an option.....

I think it wouls be better for an equality perspective to only have one option which doesn't give away women's marital status. Then it would be the same for women and men. But I'm a big supporter of equality.

Ms is supposed the female equivalent of Mr as it doesn't give away marital status. To be equal it should just be Mr or Ms. Get rid of the Miss and Mrs.

Isn't it interesting that you equate being married to being a doctor or a dame - both titles that are earnt, to one degree or another.
Having a husband isn't an accomplishment.

What I'd like to know is what you think of men who are very adamant that women should take their name when they get married.

I think those men are on par with men who are adamant that women should change their appearance or behaviour. People should be free to make their own decisions about aspects of their own identity. It is okay to change your name or not change your name - of your own free will. Coercion is never an attractive quality.

My husband didn't mind what name I used. Like a lot of professional women I kept my maiden name professionally but took his name for all other purposes because I wanted to do so.
I think that a wife should choose whether to use her maiden name or her husband's name or both in different situations as I did. It is not the husband's decision. Using a double barrelled name with both names is ridiculous.

What I'd like to know is what you think of men who are very adamant that women should take their name when they get married.

Sexist, old-fashioned, stubborn. Would also assume he wouldn't like his GF/DW earning more money or being more successful in the workplace. Probably won't do his fair share of running and organising a household!

Changing your last name to your husband's is a practice rooted in misogyny. I think it's disingenuous to say you did it because you like DH's name better - it might be a handy bonus, but if it were the case then why do all men love their name and not want to change it?

Just admit it: you did it because in 2020, it's still expected that women do it, even if your DH didn't 'ask' you to.

He sure as hell wouldn't be someone I would dream of marrying.

My name, my decision.

He's showing you who he is.

To be honest, I think most women would at least have a vague sense of whether the man you’re in a relationship with would want you to take his name or not .... probably way before he even proposed. You just kind of sense these things. I genuinely don’t remember having a conversation about it with DH. To be honest, I do think he would have been quite hurt and insulted if I’d said I didn’t want his name, so in that sense it was “expected,”. yes. But it obviously didn’t bother me, or I wouldn’t have been with him at all. Even though he’s quite traditional and formal in some respects, in other ways he’s not at all. I suppose people gravitate towards people who balance them out and it’s obvious to me that you can have an equal relationship without having to do or be the same thing all the time.

Also, I’m not bothered if someone calls me Ms or Mrs. Don’t care about that kind of thing.

I changed mine never considered otherwise. 32 years ago. I would like to change it back. I much prefer my maiden name.

@CodenameVillanelle

Isn't it interesting that you equate being married to being a doctor or a dame - both titles that are earnt, to one degree or another. Having a husband isn't an accomplishment.

Nope, not equating, just stating it’s a title and if I WANT to use a title that I am entitled to use then I should be able to so. For me that title is Mrs and I have as much right to choose to be addressed as such as someone who chooses to be Ms. It is wrong for me to say someone can’t be called Ms so why is it not wrong for a company to decide they won’t address me as Mrs?

Nope, not equating, just stating it’s a title and if I WANT to use a title that I am entitled to use then I should be able to so. For me that title is Mrs and I have as much right to choose to be addressed as such as someone who chooses to be Ms. It is wrong for me to say someone can’t be called Ms so why is it not wrong for a company to decide they won’t address me as Mrs?

There is a substantial distinction though in that Dame and Doctor represent achievements, whereas Mrs represents nothing at all. It doesn't necessarily even say anything about marital status, since anyone can use it as it has no legal meaning and lots of divorced women who changed it when they married stick to it.

It's obviously up to you where you take your custom and no company has a right to it, so you should do whatever you choose. But Mrs is not the same as Dr in this respect. The comparable term would be Miss.

I was happy to take my husband's surname as I was never keen on my own. However, if he had taken his stepfathers name when his mum remarried there is no way I'd have changed it even though it was far more the norm to do so forty odd years ago than it is now.

I always think it's funny the amount of women who deem taking their husband's surname to be old fashioned/outdated/obsolete, yet are more than happy not to dispute the tradition that has them sporting a very expensive engagement ring on their finger!!

Losing the surname tradition actually makes me very sad; I find it really divisive to the family unit (when there is one) where the husband has his surname and the wife and kids have another. The kids don't just belong to her!

I am proud to have my husband's surname and perhaps if your fiancé is "adamant" or "pushy", then maybe he has a reason that's important to him and is worth listening to.