The beach down south/bbc news tonight

[Milssofadoesntreallyfit]

I'm mean, yes I want things back to normal BUT I am still concerned in case we get a spike again. I agree we all need to be careful BUT clearly all these people just thought F* it.
All we've put up with so far with lock down and it seems every one on the beach in question decided to piss it into the wind.

If I were the government I would think I couldn't trust people to use sense at all and put lockdown back in place until either a vaccination or until people realised that if they want lockdown relaxed then they need to prove they can be trusted to show a bit of caution.

Rant over.

@MonkeyToesOfDoom

No I don't but I have small business which has pretty much vanished due to lockdown

Well it was going to go bust anyway so who gives a fuck?

Nice! Obviously Hester is going to be upset by that. Covid is not the only thing that matters...

And yet many elderly and disabled were pudhed into signing DNRs.

Pushed

Nice! Obviously Hester is going to be upset by that. Covid is not the only thing that matters...

So... What you're saying is...

"The business was going to go bust anyway so who cares" is offensive.
"Those people were going to die any way so who cares" is not offensive.

Interesting priorities right there... Very interesting indeed...

@MonkeyToesOfDoom

Nice! Obviously Hester is going to be upset by that. Covid is not the only thing that matters...

So... What you're saying is...

"The business was going to go bust anyway so who cares" is offensive.
"Those people were going to die any way so who cares" is not offensive.

Interesting priorities right there... Very interesting indeed...

No, that's not what I said! Both things matter. And it's nicer if that can be acknowledged without resorting to random insults.

@Jourdain11

I agree partly, but I do also think it's in part been done to protect the vulnerable and shielding. Because, let's face it, these groups are most likely to need hospital treatment. I know there are others who do too, and that it is important to get the other NHS services up and running. But I think there's also a point to accepting that a lot of this has been done to protect the medically vulnerable, and to be thankful for that.

You can think whatever you like but it’s not correct. It has never been officially said, people are assuming. All these weeks down the line and we are still having people trot out the same things. We are a society, we are all protecting each other. Protecting the health service is for everyone.

The health service is doing fine just now though, except for delayed cancer diagnoses and treatments, of course.

@Mascotte

The health service is doing fine just now though, except for delayed cancer diagnoses and treatments, of course.

Oh yes, I wasn’t suggesting otherwise. I was just explaining why we initially locked down. I’m awaiting non cancer but very important treatment. The damage being done will cost more in the long term, both for the NHS in terms of money and me in terms of quality of life.

I said that when I have gone out walking there are many occasions where the pavement that I am walking on is "blocked" by people walking abreast, rather than single file. When I attempt to avoid them I can't because there are also people on the other pavement. That's not saying that both pavements are chock full of people constantly. It's saying that this happens multiple times no matter what time of day I go for a walk (unless I went out in the middle of the night I suppose

I think this is true everywhere and there is such an easy solution: walk on the left, single file! No groups and no couples joined at the hip. Is it hard? No. But people are stupid and completely unaware of their surroundings. I've noticed the walking along staring at your mobile phone is creeping back too.

Nice! Obviously Hester is going to be upset by that.

ah thanks Jourdain, but I'm not upset by it. I'm just startled that anyone could be quite so irrational.

Oh well.

just startled that anyone could be quite so irrational.

You're going to have to explain how it's irrational.
"Many people may have died soon so they dont count"
"Many businesses may have closed soon any way so they don't count"
Explain the irrationality there please.

So by my tally I'm waiting for:

One poster to explain why ONS deaths are unreliable and wrong but Government figures are reliable and correct.

One poster to supply figures of deaths of people that were likely to die soon anyway.

And one poster to explain how I'm being irrational.

Should be interesting reading. 👍
Whenever you're ready..

@PatriciaPerch truly shocking.

@HesterShaw1 Sorry, I probably did jump on that a little, although saying don't take offence etc doesn't actually stop people feeling offended.

I can actually see where you are coming from to a degree, I think the use of the word 'anyway' threw the comment for me. Plus the fact that dying a lonely isolated death from covid seems far worse to me than passing at your time, whether its in your sleep, being pain managed with familiar people around you etc instead of during this awful pandemic when everything is unfamiliar and even more scary. I also think we may well see a decline in deaths not related to Cover due to this aspect.

I think a lot of the shielded are finding the assumption that we are all (or the majority) either very elderly or about to die hard to ignore, it kind of makes our life worth diminished. At the beginning of this the phrase 'Its ok, its only the old and those with underlying conditions going to die' was thrown about constantly, in fact quite a few people said it to me ;) being as robust as I appear. Its a horrible feeling, but I think its one of those situations that unless you suddenly find yourself in it, the feelings, emotions and pain that it brings with it aren't really something you could understand (people generally), I know I never thought I would be here and if I wasn't I would have no idea how it would be. My best friend said to me the other day that if she didn't know me she wouldn't have a clue how much of a scary mindfuck it is to be shielded, she said to forgive people who don't realise. It is quite a unique situation and not one I'm particularly thankful for experiencing. It does definitely make me much more sensitive.

Lock down didn't protect the shielded, shielding did. Cant get a virus sat at home on my arse debating how much weight I can gain ;) It did perhaps give more protection to the vulnerable group who continued working and shopping etc but with stringent distancing, and it did protect the NHS, as did shielding.

Its a very emotive situation for the entire country. I wish it would just fuck off so we can all get things back on track.

Thank you RedCherries for taking the time to reply. I definitely appreciate your points. People dying on your own of Covid seems necessarily cruel and sad, I agree, which is one of the reasons this lockdown dragging on is so appalling. I'm thinking particularly of that poor young lad and how frightened he must have been, and people in care homes who are often lost and confused anyway because of dementia.

I apologise to you for my use of the word "anyway". In retrospect that does look a little heartless, even though it wasn't intended to be. Sorry. I in no way think that the people who are shielding's lives are worth less than any others. All lives are worth something.

Its a very emotive situation for the entire country. I wish it would just fuck off so we can all get things back on track. Yes, this, so much.

• Northernsoulgirl45 And yet many elderly and disabled were pudhed into signing DNRs. quite a lot had them issued without their consent or that of their carers! No best interests meetings, nothing.*

My sister works in the NHS as a nurse. When Lockdown happened, they had a meeting and were told that they weren’t going to resuscitate anyone over 65 years regardless. That was an agreed practice in the hospital she works in. She suffers from anxiety and rang me crying worried about our parents in case they caught it. I contacted the hospital about this and the health board but no response. I even raised this with some media outlets (probably not the right thing to do but I was livid at the time. Upset, angry and worried) no one was interested...

There lies the reason why some many elderly died . That and the care home debacle.

Although over 65 is not elderly.

That and the care home debacle

Sickening the way the government have handled this. I was appalled at the daily briefing figures at the beginning that weren't counting care home deaths. I was told I was dumb, didn't know how stats work, wasn't good at maths etc... then others noticed too and reality began dawning on those that had called me names.

Then BoJo says we've done better than anyone... Yet the stats and numbers say we worst in Europe. Still idiots lapped it up.

It's been a shambles. For every single pub, shop, gathering, business etc that results in it spreading and ends up causing a single death, those deaths are the cost of those places being opened.
If I was a landlord and a single infection and death was traced back to my pub, I wouldn't be able to look that family of that dead person in the eye and say opening my pub was a good idea.

Although over 65 is not elderly.

Yep. I don’t even know if they put this into practice, I hope not. To put a DNR policy in place so across the board like this made me sick (playing God & the lack of value for people’s lives) still does when I think of it. It’d be interesting if anyone else can confirm this from any other health board/ hospital.

The dnr push was awful, as a shielded person I’m active in quite a few groups, forums etc as it’s nice to be able to share experience and thoughts, fears, with people in a similar situation (I say similar because we may all be shielded but our conditions and situations are incredibly diverse)

I didn’t receive the call myself but initially there was confusion if the entire shielded population were receiving them, I cried, I discussed it with my husband and told him my wishes. Speaking to people who had the call was heartbreaking, it’s a shocking situation. I read an article recently where some families told their stories, if I can find it I’ll post it here.

I believe some people received a phone call, then paperwork they were advised to put on the front of the fridge so if they were taken to hospital it could be easily found, imagine having to look at that every time you made a cuppa.

We were told early on to pack hospital bags to have ready in case we got ill, I didn’t do that but I haven’t worn most of my jewellery through shielding in case I became suddenly unwell and got taken into hospital as I want my family to have those bits here. They really ramped the fear into us.

We were also advised to play sudoku and do jigsaws, which was nice!

We were told early on to pack hospital bags to have ready in case we got ill, I didn’t do that but I haven’t worn most of my jewellery through shielding in case I became suddenly unwell and got taken into hospital as I want my family to have those bits here. They really ramped the fear into us.

I didn't pack a bag because I didn't want to have to keep seeing it but I did gather everything together, so that my husband could just put it all in a bag, if it came to it. The fear that they put into us doesn't just disappear, particularly as the risk is still there. They've stopped the relaxation of shielding in Leicester and it just brings it home, how vulnerable we are and how even our tiny bit of freedom is hanging by a thread.

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras I have to admit I've been reasonably upbeat through it all, but the last few days has caused a bit of a low point, the feeling that at any stage life outside the house can completely stop for us again, and not knowing how long for etc, I feel a bit out of control of my future, we have the same worries as everyone else, with family, jobs, money etc but the idea of need to hide at home again to the degree this has been is bloody horrible.

Then I read this morning that the USA are buying huge percentages of the potentially positive vaccinations and its another bloody kick in the gut.

Need to stay positive, control the things we can and use the upcoming increase in freedom to have as much normality and fun as possible (I know its guidance and advice, not a prison sentence, doesn't feel much like a choice though, stay home and be safe but lose your mental health or go outside, catch it, take up a hospital bed and maybe leave my family behind - great choice!) in case we do get asked to shield again.

I'm intrigued how this weekend will go, I know we are due rain so that might stop huge crowds but I think its going to be carnage by late evening. It will be interesting to see what the infection levels and deaths are over the following weeks/month, personally I find all the mixed numbers regarding recent declines or rises slightly confusing so I might do some research today. I do think its positive that the bank holidays, VE Day, beaches so far haven't shown a sudden spike but I think its a delicate time. Personally, I'd bite my own leg off right now to sit in a pub garden with a huge wine and lunch so not judging anyone, and trust me, the minute I feel the situation and risk to me balances I will be going for that lunch (Thinking mid week, country pub, lots of outdoor seating) but busier areas, first night in the pub, I think its going to be messy sadly.

Redcherries

I just find it difficult to trust the figures at all. One expert says one thing, another says the opposite.

I'm not so sure we are home and dry re ve day. Just a small number of initial infections would probably go unnoticed but then they will infect a few more who infect a few more and maybe five or six weeks down the line you start to see the effect. Is that what we are seeing now? The third or fourth generation of ve day infections? That's just a niggling thought of mine. As ever, time will tell.

I feel so sorry for those shielding in Leicester right now because they are back to square one again. It's awful