Inappropriate BIL behavior?

[confusedm1]

Long story here. I don’t have anyone else to get advice from about this so hoping MN can give me some. I’m ready to be told IABU. I’ve had some postnatal anxiety so I’m not sure if I’m being unnecessarily worried.

Parent in-laws live 10 hours away. BIL lives in a small flat very close to them, visits most days, he basically lives there half the time. He’s middle-age, has social anxiety, doesn’t work or see any friends or extended family, no girlfriend. From what I can gather he spends a lot of time on the internet and sees his parents and that’s about it. He’s had drug problems in the past and frequently has suicidal thoughts. Until below I thought he was a nice, quiet man who had a rough life. Now I don’t no what to think.

I’m a FTM to a 2 year old DD, who is also the family’s 1st GC. Me and DH visited in-laws before lockdown.
BILs actions towards DD made me uncomfortable straight away. He would constantly touch her face, I mean all the time and pat her head like a dog. He would lie on the floor so DD could climb him. Try to tickle her at the time. He was way more involved than any other family member. But I put it down to me being over protective.
He would also put food on her highchair but not stuff I would normally give her so I would say “please don’t give her that” and he would say “no she’s fine.” I also asked him not to touch her face all the time he said “yes I can.” He would stay overnight at the in-laws, sleep on the sofa. I think this was so he could be there when she got up in the morning. If she took a tumble he would jump in and grab her to console her, before me or DH had a chance to. It’s almost like he wants to be her parent.
It was odd but I put all this down to him never having much interaction with baby’s, this was his first time seeing her and my anxiety.

So then on the last night we were there, I was getting her bath ready at night. BIL has just had a shower, again he did this sometimes (no Idea why but everyone thought it was normal). My FIL took DD into there bedroom, where BIL was. I heard her crying so went in. My heart fell out of my body at this point. DD was crawling up BILs body who was only wearing a towel and not covering himself very well. FIL grabbed DD, said “I’ll take her downstairs” and pretty much ran out. I think he realised it looked doughy. I should have had words with him then about it but I didn’t and left the room.

I told DH everything and my feelings about BIL but we go round and round. Ending in “so basically your saying my brothers a peado” NO but I cant ignore my feelings. DH agrees this is unacceptable behavior from BIL but to just leave it now and have words if anything else happens next time we visit. It could all be a misunderstanding. I have this bad feeling about BIL, I can’t explain it. I never had it before DD. A feeling of deep dread in my gut.

We plan to move soon (delayed by CV) to be near in-laws, they want to look after her while I’m a work which would be great and save money. But I’ll be worried constantly about BIL being there. Watching her alone while MIL pops to shop or something. I sway between thinking IABU and it’s good he wants to be so involved. Or I need to protect her and be cautious. I would feel absolutely terrible if anything happened, it’s every parents worst nightmare.

So WWYD and AIBU?

@JamieFrasersSassenach

Please listen to your instincts & the majority of pp.

I have worked with adult survivors of sexual abuse. I cannot tell you if your BIL is a paedophile.

I can tell you that nearly every single survivor I worked with was abused by a member of their family. A brother, father, uncle, grandparent, good family friend. I have worked with women who were passed around their fathers, stepfathers, uncles, grandfathers, older brothers and even on to paedophile rings. And nobody knew it was happening to them, or when they spoke up they were told they were lying, and then labelled as naughty.

You are already experiencing the dichotomy of it can't be possible that a family member could mean any harm, I must be wrong. That is one of the ways the abuse happens and continues to happen. A child groomed from a baby, as a pp said earlier, to think uncle touches me a lot, to believe it's ok for men to touch her, to believe that because it's allowed to happen in a safe place it must be ok, to believe that this must mean she is the 'bad' person in all of this, to internalise all of those feelings.

Sometimes in families the men abuse in pairs - it is not beyond the impossible that your FIL is also an abuser, that may be why he picked you DD up when you saw what was happening. It looked like he was protecting her, but maybe he was protecting himself and his opportunities.

It's so hard to grasp just how much this goes on, but please believe me when I say that it does. Do not take the chance that it could happen to your daughter. If you feel something is wrong, then something is wrong. Let your DD grow up with an assertive parent who is prepared to make decisions to protect their child, even if those decisions may not please everyone. In that way your DD will be safe, and will grow up with the autonomy to be assertive about herself and not vulnerable to any kind of abuse.

OP, if you are getting your DH to read this thread, then make sure he reads this. ^^

Mr confusedm1 Yes, it might be hard to think your family might have an unhealthy interest in your DD. But your brother's behaviour in particular is inappropriate at best and downright dubious to many of us on this thread. And as for your father, well, as described here, he was very much aware of how it looked to your wife, leaving the room with your DD so quickly.

Sadly, the vast majority of abuse in is families. I have seen estimates before that it's as much as 95% of all abuse. And while you might think that these abusers are someone else, somewhere far away, these abusers are someone's son, or father, or brother, or uncle, or trusted family friend, etc. These abusers are people who are trusted, that's how they get away with it.

It's a difficult one. I have had weird gut feelings about people before and they've turned out to be right.

For instance, my DS's swimming teacher. He's gay, far enough, I have 2 gay people in my immediate family and loads of gay friends. But it wasn't that. I just thought he was weird. He looked odd. I had a gut feeling that something wasn't quite right with him. I didn't stop the swimming lessons and I chastised myself for thinking this way.

Last year, he was found with thousands of CSA images.

Trust your instincts.

People who breach boundaries need to be watched. People who ignore a parent's wishes needed to be watched.

This in spades.

So often this is turned on to the ‘accuser’ to ‘justify’ - in this case the OP. I think this is how much abuse goes on in plain sight. No one wants to think that and they pounce on anyone raising alarm bells and minimize them.

Like others have said - the lack of boundaries and ignoring your wishes as her parent are rational and very valid reasons to be wary and to immediately assert and distance your DD from both BIL and ILs. This is the only safe response. It doesn’t mean you are ‘accusing’ - it is a reaction to what has already happened.

I have a similar situation with my Ex ILs and its scary as hell. My DS is SN and very vulnerable, and Ex is ignoring a few warning signs about two members of the family who are pushing boundaries and ignoring my wishes as a parent. I haven’t seen signs of possible sexual abuse, however the pushing boundaries is exposing my DS to inappropriate, physically and emotionally unsafe behaviour, that could if let result in his own boundaries being skewed and be more likely to suffer later. I am having an especially hard time convincing Ex to take it seriously as his family can do no wrong. However the more they ‘defend’ the more convinced I am that nobody is protecting DS - making me more determined than ever to nip any of this in the bud - even though I may not by physically there on contact time.

It is very serious. And we are the only ones standing in front of our kids to protect them. No one else will.

OP,

I have NRFT but enough to get the gist. I am wondering is it unusual for BIL to stay over on the couch? And what was he like next day, more of the same jumping all over the place & ignoring your wishes? Did you get any other signals from ILs (FIL) that made you feel more uneasy? I think if you instinct is telling you something is ofc here then you have to pay attention & 10 hrs distance sounds preferable than DD in their house each & every day. Altho when I was young, I had a very youthful uncle.. he was silly like that in terms of play & let us do stupid things our parents wdn't allow...climbing stuff & just being a bit wild. He would pull faces when we should be serious & make us giggle...even said some curse words in our presence so we'd be in hysterics. I thought some of your descriptions reminded me of him...I was v v fond of him, he was a joy to be around as a child. But the towel & FIL reaction...talk again to your DH...you don't wsnt to be alarmist & cause a rift....but neither will you be handing DD over in a few wks (after CV?) whrn you feel as concerned as you do.

Yes not normal behaviour from this man. From the way you describe this man, at the beginning of you post, he sounds quite out of touch with the real world, and very inward thinking, and does not have any notion of how to behave with a small child. It's not a nice thing to say, but who know's what he gets up to on the internet.

But it could all be a simplistic thing for him. seeing your sweet little daughter, something he has never had for himself, and he thinks he is being nice to her.

1 in 20 children are sexually abused (NSPCC), usually by someone they know. Police told me the male who began abusing me before I turned 3yrs old ‘seems nice’. So it’s up to parents to protect their kids from paedos, because no one else will. Most people don’t even know the basic signs children display when they’ve been sexually abused.
Obviously, do not put your child anywhere near this man again.

Please trust your gut and do not allow your child to be alone with your PILs or BIL.

I would find a way to move house further away from them if you can.

Another problem could be if you ever split up with your dh, the child could then be passed to the BIL on your dh access time. Terrifying.

Sorry, I just realised you currently live 10 hours away, stay put.

Get ready to move house when your PIL announce they are going to move closer to you if you do stay put.

Predators are not called predators for no reason!

However, this isn't just some random man on the bus that gives you the willies, it's your husband's brother, your daughter's uncle.
Most children are sexually abused by relatives not strangers.

How could you possibly not know that, it's been stated by relevant charities for years now.

Op I wouldn't ever ever leave your child in the care of your IL's.

Not a fkg chance.

Mothers instinct. Please trust it. It’s there for a reason.

Your fil's behaviour was a bit too.

Don’t move AND don’t let your ILs or DH supervise without you as they are not taking the risk seriously

@Jobconfused

Trust your gut

This was the motto of lynch mobs wasn't it?

Your gut is screaming at you for a reason. Protect your daughter.

There are all sorts of red flags here from the towel incident to the fact this continued despite your daughter crying and FIL being in the room to DHs defending of his behaviour. Then there is telling you she's fine etc etc. I would be very uncomfortable with this. As others have said, no unsupervised time with PIL or even DH when visiting. It's just not worth the risk when you've already had red flags.

Pay for childcare. Tell parents in law it is tosafeguard their time with DD to just fun and visits. And never allow the little girl around the uncle alone. Not for ten minutes. This is NOT poor social skills. This is seeking physical proximity to, and obsession with, a little girl. Tell your husband he will just have to trust you on this. Hugs.

@Elsewyre look at the stats on their estimates of what percentage of little girls are abused, reported plus unreported, and grow up a tad here. Nobody is talking lynching. People are discussing a two year old encouraged to crawl up a semi naked man. I hope, if you have daughters, that you are protective of them.

I told DH everything and my feelings about BIL but we go round and round. Ending in “so basically your saying my brothers a peado” NO but I cant ignore my feelings.

but you are, though, aren't you? Just be open and honest about what you think. and then take the conversation from there.

@GilbertMarkham

However, this isn't just some random man on the bus that gives you the willies, it's your husband's brother, your daughter's uncle.
Most children are sexually abused by relatives not strangers

How could you possibly not know that, it's been stated by relevant charities for years now

Thanks, but I'm not ignorant to basic facts. Please don't jump to conclusions.
What I meant was, him being the child's uncle makes it a bit more conplicated than if he were a stranger on the bus that you will likely never see again.

A friend's 2yo used to be cared for by her grandparents. Sadly my friend's younger (adult) sibling who lived in the house was found to be abusing the child. Absolutely horrendous situation.

For anyone to look after your child, you need to have 100% confidence in their judgment and ability to safeguard, even where taking protective measures might make a relationship awkward. There is obviously no way you can have this confidence or expectation about your PIL now.

Another poster saying to trust your instincts.

At first I was just going to say pay for childcare but it will be so hard living close by and never letting GPs have her alone. You need your husband to agree to your policy of not having her alone with GPs if you're going to avoid her being alone at any point with BIL.

OP is insinuating BIL is a paedo and the PIL facilitating it, and wants to call the police to enquire about him within Sarah's law. No wonder the husband is upset. This is his family so of course he will be justifiably upset and shocked.

This could all be perfectly innocent (if the OP didn't have an innocent childhood as she said, how much of this is projection). Alternatively, there could be something afoot and the OP is right. Either way, OP isn't comfortable, is very concerned, so moving nearer and having PIL look after the child should be put on hold until this situation becomes more clear.

@Brefugee

I told DH everything and my feelings about BIL but we go round and round. Ending in “so basically your saying my brothers a peado” NO but I cant ignore my feelings.

but you are, though, aren't you? Just be open and honest about what you think. and then take the conversation from there.

I kind of agree. You’re not saying the brother is a paedo, you are saying though that he does things that make you uncomfortable.

Turn it round and ask your DH if he’s willing to put your daughter at risk?

I think you should put off plans to move near the ILs.

Your BIL acts inappropriately with your DD, and to some extent your FIL enables him.