Inappropriate BIL behavior?

[confusedm1]

Long story here. I don’t have anyone else to get advice from about this so hoping MN can give me some. I’m ready to be told IABU. I’ve had some postnatal anxiety so I’m not sure if I’m being unnecessarily worried.

Parent in-laws live 10 hours away. BIL lives in a small flat very close to them, visits most days, he basically lives there half the time. He’s middle-age, has social anxiety, doesn’t work or see any friends or extended family, no girlfriend. From what I can gather he spends a lot of time on the internet and sees his parents and that’s about it. He’s had drug problems in the past and frequently has suicidal thoughts. Until below I thought he was a nice, quiet man who had a rough life. Now I don’t no what to think.

I’m a FTM to a 2 year old DD, who is also the family’s 1st GC. Me and DH visited in-laws before lockdown.
BILs actions towards DD made me uncomfortable straight away. He would constantly touch her face, I mean all the time and pat her head like a dog. He would lie on the floor so DD could climb him. Try to tickle her at the time. He was way more involved than any other family member. But I put it down to me being over protective.
He would also put food on her highchair but not stuff I would normally give her so I would say “please don’t give her that” and he would say “no she’s fine.” I also asked him not to touch her face all the time he said “yes I can.” He would stay overnight at the in-laws, sleep on the sofa. I think this was so he could be there when she got up in the morning. If she took a tumble he would jump in and grab her to console her, before me or DH had a chance to. It’s almost like he wants to be her parent.
It was odd but I put all this down to him never having much interaction with baby’s, this was his first time seeing her and my anxiety.

So then on the last night we were there, I was getting her bath ready at night. BIL has just had a shower, again he did this sometimes (no Idea why but everyone thought it was normal). My FIL took DD into there bedroom, where BIL was. I heard her crying so went in. My heart fell out of my body at this point. DD was crawling up BILs body who was only wearing a towel and not covering himself very well. FIL grabbed DD, said “I’ll take her downstairs” and pretty much ran out. I think he realised it looked doughy. I should have had words with him then about it but I didn’t and left the room.

I told DH everything and my feelings about BIL but we go round and round. Ending in “so basically your saying my brothers a peado” NO but I cant ignore my feelings. DH agrees this is unacceptable behavior from BIL but to just leave it now and have words if anything else happens next time we visit. It could all be a misunderstanding. I have this bad feeling about BIL, I can’t explain it. I never had it before DD. A feeling of deep dread in my gut.

We plan to move soon (delayed by CV) to be near in-laws, they want to look after her while I’m a work which would be great and save money. But I’ll be worried constantly about BIL being there. Watching her alone while MIL pops to shop or something. I sway between thinking IABU and it’s good he wants to be so involved. Or I need to protect her and be cautious. I would feel absolutely terrible if anything happened, it’s every parents worst nightmare.

So WWYD and AIBU?

[BoomyBooms]

OP I really hope you see my comment because I don't think anyone has mentioned (too many comments for me to read all of them, I have a baby about to wake up, read as many as I could though) --

_paedophiles groom parents as often as they groom children

Him overriding your wishes over small things how you have described sounds like he might be trying to set you up to get used to him doing what he wants to your daughter.

[confusedm1]

@BoomyBooms

OP I really hope you see my comment because I don't think anyone has mentioned (too many comments for me to read all of them, I have a baby about to wake up, read as many as I could though) --

_paedophiles groom parents as often as they groom children

Him overriding your wishes over small things how you have described sounds like he might be trying to set you up to get used to him doing what he wants to your daughter.

I have seen it. Thank you, I won't forget it. Plus I'm not going to let it happen again. I've found my backbone now

[Sunnydayshereatlast]

If you must move invite ils to stay with you. With no space for bil. Good luck with the talks.

[mbosnz]

Definitely 18+ - because just because a person has the ability to talk, doesn't mean to say they feel they have a voice, or can find the words. Or can figure out who to tell that will believe them, and act upon what they say, preventing further harm.

Thank you for having your daughter's back. And front. And sides.

[xmummy2princesx]

Trust your gut

[OhYeahYouSuck]

Yeah you're doing the right thing OP. My relative ignored her instincts regarding me and it didn't turn out well.

I'd rather offend people than risk my child being abused. It's unbelievably common and is far more likely to happen by someone known to the child. I find something off about ex's uncle and if he was around more I'd be stepping in.

[dottiedodah]

I think this is weird behaviour TBH! Really trust your gut here it is not wrong normally! How would you feel if God Forbid something happened and you hadnt stopped it?Even the towel incident alone ,would have me out of there TBH .FIL must have felt uncomfortable as well to whisk DD away .I would say flat out to DH, that you are uncomfortable with that level of contact and you dont feel happy about it full stop.If he thinks you are making a fuss so be it .Tell him you will meet his DP outside ATM, a walk in the park or whatever .DO NOT leave DC at their house it is just too much of a risk .

[RedCouch]

Glad you are listening to your gut OP. Better safe than sorry and he clearly has no problem overstepping boundaries and not respecting your wishes as the mother. Gave me the creeps reading this

[NotMakingDinner]

NOPE. And don't even move closer. Never let him or FIL alone with her or even sit next to her at the table. I've heard horror stories on MN about that too . Be talking to DD about her body and privacy now.

The majority of sex abuse is by people you know or family.

Of course, your DH doesn't want to think his brother could be a pedophile but who does? Does he believe most people knew their families were abusers when they left their children with them? And yes, to Sarah's law.

[NotMakingDinner]

also start drawing normal boundaries now! If you say "no she can't eat that" then NO SHE CAN'T EAT THAT!

Use that chance to make it clear you will come down on him like a ton of bricks. Best case scenario he decides you are hardwork and stops being overly affectionate with DD. Worst case your pil don't want you around much but that seems safest for everyone and will put your mind at ease.

If he puts food on her plate, take it away.

If he tickles her explain that you teach her that "NO MEANS NO" and she doesn't want to be tickled. Pick her up move her.

[OhCaptain]

Honestly, from your update there is even less reason to move there!

Don’t underestimate the relationship you can build with friends. Your support system doesn’t have to be family.

And paid childcare is, IMO, always the best option as there are no muddied waters.

Aside from the potential abuse, BIL sounds like a nightmare. Is that a situation you want to be close to? Because you know you’ll get dragged into it. Even expected to “mind” him when PILs can’t.

Your best safety net right now is the distance. Don’t throw that away.

[D4rwin]

He is overstepping boundaries that the child's mother is ok with. Your DH shutting down the conversation by saying you were accusing him of that is awful. He should be prepared to address where the boundaries are for both of you as parents. That is exactly how people get away with extreme abuse by people not challenging the small erosions of boundaries.

[LoafingLiz]

But ILs adore DD and would do anything for more contact

Even lie to you and promise they'll follow your wishes?
Only you can protect your child.

They will do what BIL wants because they want to keep him happy.

[dottiedodah]

DeerHeart So basically OP waits for something bad to happen and then takes action? Im also flabbergasted at this response as well! Really the little girls welfare is at stake here! Rolling around with a towel on is highly inappropriate IMO! how long does it take to "gather evidence " before the child is at risk of harm ?

[Apple1029]

Please open your eyes op.

If you move there and they will be providing childcare, then you are going to be stuck in a horrible situation. There will be no escaping them and I can guarantee you that they will all minimize any situation so that they can see their gc. And your dh is pathetic really. He says he 'understands' your view but still doesnt believe it. He will be the first one calling you crazy when these situations arise.

[dottiedodah]

OnlyJoking1 Im so sorry to hear that .I (thankfully) had never suffered child abuse or known anyone that had .However I agree with you wholeheartedly ,and would always err on the side of caution with my own DC .I hope you are safe now, and you are very brave and courageous to tell us of your past experiences .Take care sending hugs to you xx

[NotMyFinestMoment]

The tickling, touching her face, encouraging her to climb on his near naked body is grooming her and getting her used to the physical contact. I think the FIL is a major red flag and a major part of the problem. He took the OP's young daughter in to a separate room (when the OP was otherwise occupied) with a near naked man and between them they were encouraging her to climb up this nearly naked man. Only when she called out (and I would want to know why she cried out and what was happening at the time - I would gently question her about this - perhaps use a dolly or teddy and ask her to show you). Then as you walk in your FIL panics and takes her and runs out. To me, it's reasonably clear FIL was acting on a guilty conscience and he and his SIL were interrupted. Why did he pick her up and go out of the room in the first place. Was she dressed at the time?

[NotMyFinestMoment]

*sorry FIL and his son were interrupted. As I said earlier it takes minutes or even seconds to inappropriately touch or interfere with someone.

[Nottherealslimshady]

As others said, I think it's really worrying that FIL took your child to a bedroom to his nearly naked son and put her on top of him. Then when you came in and saw, quickly picked her up and ran out the room.

[Socialdistancegintonic]

All those PPs saying it’s completely normal for an uncle to be like that, that would only apply if they had an existing relationship. He hadn’t been bothered to see her in 2 years and then he’s suddenly hands-on, doting uncle? People I’ve known who don’t have children and aren’t really bothered by them remain that way when they’re with children. They don’t get down on the floor to be climbed on or constantly touch the children.

This is important. Real relationships grow slowly, respect the child and the parent. This stood out for me as my ILs are like this, they have no interest in my DS with SN unless it is on their own terms and they are totally all over him, touching him. I am teaching my DS about ‘circles of trust’ - a basic circle which says very simply who can touch him, and about privacy - I am naming who can give him hugs and who cannot as he is so vulnerable and does not get normal rules. It has bought home to me how damaging ‘erosion of boundaries’ is to children. It might be worth looking this up and discussing this with your DH - no matter how much even grandparents want to kiss and cuddle a child - or an Uncle - it is much healthier for the child to have clear boundaries and only certain 100% trusted people within their inner circle of trust. Mum and Dad basically. It is actually harmful for her to have her Uncle, a bigger, stronger man grab her face. If you focus the argument on what your DD needs, then it might make more sense?

[Spinakker]

Fil and bil both sound dangerous to be left alone with your Dd. Just because their family don't mean they automatically have the right to see your Dd. You definitely can't use them as childcare. It could be they are a bit stupid and don't understand how these things are innapropriate or it could be more sinister. Do not take the risk. Better to stay at home without a job supervising your dd yourself than leave her with someone you can't 100 per cent trust

[wildcherries]

Good luck with the talks, OP.

[HannaYeah]

I wouldn’t want to be left holding the bag later when the in-laws are gone with respect to having to take care of the BIL, either

[eastmidswarwicknightnanny]

Sarah's law will only tell you if any allegations or convictions unfortunately too many out there aren't reported/caught.

FIL is equally dubious did he know BIL was in a state of undress wa it somewhat planned I would want to know FIL history too

Just putting it out there perhaps BIL mental health issues and drug abuse are due to being the victim of abuse throughout childhood but remains groomed/under the influence of his abuser.

Could be completely wrong but you froze for a reason.

[Thehollyandtheirony]

Do you currently live abroad?
He doesn’t work, he doesn’t travel. I wouldn’t be surprised if he has a police record. Please check.

Don’t move close to them.