To ask for all of my DD's baby clothes back?

[Tsubasa1]

Background= I have two SILs. SIL1 is particularly fond of lying, and I have caught her out many times over the years(but never confronted her).

I have been passing down my DD1's baby clothes to SIL2. The thing is she hasn't given any back, and now I'm having to buy a whole new wardrobe for DD2! The final straw was when I saw SIL1 at the weekend and her newborn (similar age to DD2) was wearing one of my DD1's hand me downs (that my DD2 should be using now). I was just shocked and I said, "that was my DD1's cardigan". -"oh yes" she replied. Then I said "I didn't get it back from SIL2". She says "Oh no she gave it to me for my daughter".

Then to my shock a few hours later she says. "Oh I didn't know this was your daughter's, I can give it to you" then I responded "You need to give it back to me". Then she rambled on about how she didn't know and this and that. But her first reaction tells me that she DID KNOW all along it was DD1s cardigan.

I expected SIL1 to be honest and bring back the baby clothes when my child might need them. It was our agreement to lend the clothes but always give them back. Instead they are passing them on to each other. Because SIL1's daughter and mine are similar in age, so if she gave them to me, SIL1 wouldn't be able to use them. I shouldn't have to be chasing them for every item, they should be honest and give them back. I think this incident will ruin our relationship forever.

I suspect SIL2 has given other items like blouses and dresses and shorts to my SIL1. I think they are in this together and decided to do that until I asked for the items back

YABU- let them do as they please and buy your DD2 a new wardrobe
YANBU- to ask for all the clothes back

Should I also ask for the newborn clothes that I don't need anymore back (sizes 0-9 months)? Just because I don't think they deserve anything from me? (SIL2 is expecting a baby in August)

Even if you were clear with SIL2 - you were very rude to SIL1.

Never heard of loaning out baby clothes until I came to MN. WTF? And to family? I'd give the shirt off my back to my sister-in-law. It's clothes, not the Holy Grail. She became unexpectedly pregnant with a girl after having two boys as a teen. I had my third, a boy, a few months before, gave her all the girls' baby clothes, asking her first did she even want them and that they were not a loan because other than a family christening gown, who tf loans out baby clothes to their own family? YABU.

So if she stuck to the arrangement but returned them stained and a bit damaged you would be happy to use them??
I'm guessing not.
Cant you see how loaning baby clothes is never a bright idea.
It causes more pain for the receiver to ensure they can be returned , and to which person they received it from!
Honestly you sound Petty. I've never gave or heard of baby clothes being returned.

Of course she admired what’s your baby was wearing. That’s small talk. You say ‘oh what a lovely dress’.

SIL2 was gracious. I would have removed the cardigan but I'd shove it in your mouth to shut you up.

Generally the way that loaning baby clothes works is that you pass on outgrown clothes, and if you subsequently have another baby, then you get passed back a bundle of baby clothes, but they wouldn't necessarily be the same ones that you gave them. Just a bundle of outgrown baby clothes that are the right size for your baby.

I find you comments on not wanting to ask for stuff back quite odd. How would someone know you needed it if you don't tell them? I'm wondering if you are Japanese? (based on your username). I'm aware that there are quite different standards of etiquette in Japan, and quite a lot of emphasis around consideration of other people's feelings. Cultural differences might explain why you have a different outlook on this to most posters. In the UK the expectation would certainly be that you'd ask for the clothes (or suitcase, or whatever) back when you needed it, rather than waiting to be offered it, and to not do so but then complain about it comes across as petty. But in a different culture, expectations may be different.

Since reading mumsnet I’ve learned to say ‘these are yours now - do as you please with them including selling them if they’re not to your taste’ whenever I pass stuff down and likewise ‘do you want these back?’ When I’ve been given stuff.

I think you're getting an unfair pasting here. They asked for the clothes, you said that you would rather not, but if they wanted to borrow them, they could but now they won't give them back. If they didn't want the hassle of keeping track or making sure things weren't damaged then they shouldn't have agreed to borrow them. I'm not sure why the fact that they are baby clothes makes such a difference- your SIL wanted to borrow them and now she's refusing to give them back. That's unkind regardless.

I would never take clothes that have to be returned at a later date, far too much faff.

I think if you were clear it was a loan then it was a loan and you should ask for it back maybe not what the baby is actually wearing but the smaller ones and any next size up clothes but be prepared for there not being anything left

I would
Never give hand me downs as a loan, if you really liked them and wanted to keep them there would be the potential that they would be wrecked by the time you got them back or stained or whatever. Years ago when mine were small I safely stored my favourites for the next child, I didn’t keep many but I loved a few of them so kept them.

Did you make it clear it was a loan?
Most people who pass on baby stuff do so because they've finished using it. I don't understand why someone would give stuff out if they intended on having more kids.

@Tsubasa1 I’m a bit lost on the whole lending/borrowing baby things to be honest and am learning from this website that it all seems to be a bit risky. But this sounds to me like it isn’t about the baby clothes really, but about your relationship with your SILs in general? Are they sisters? Or are they also SILs through marriage? Do you not have great relationships in general?

I think people are being unfair to you; if you had a clear agreement with your SIL then she should have checked with you before lending anything out, however, I don’t think it’s worth falling out with them over. It’s frustrating and people saying it’s only a few clothes, it can be expensive to buy all new clothes especially if you aren’t flush, so I do appreciate your position, but it may be more innocent than you think rather than them hanging up?

I would ask for clothes back as per your arrangement. I wouldn't loan them anything ever again.

I kept baby clothes thinking I'd need them, when I didn't gave them away. I gave some to one of DC's friends parents. The cheeky feckers immediately sold them on eBay so I stopped.

I used to buy DN and DN 3&4 outfits each once a year. ILs gave them away so I stopped. I checked sizes and needs beforehand I now leave it to DH and he buys them a toy and vouchers. I spend a fraction of what I did. I assume they are happier to buy their own or give the vouchers away. My intentions and expectations did not match theirs in my family we would send pictures of DC in outfits. We have different values about gift giving and it was better to address the situation.

Did you tell them you'd want the items back?
My sister have given me lots of different things for my daughter, and I'd be very surprised if she suddenly wanted them back now as she gifted them to me, didn't loan them.

I think yabu, unless you specifically said you'd need them back. Next time, don't give things away if you'll want them returning.

You should simply have asked for the clothes back! This is bonkers.
Anyway - do people actually remember where clothes come from? I got given (thank God!)loads of clothes for my boy from a couple of friends and I wouldn't have a clue what came from where a couple of years down the line.
I also don't get why you're annoyed at SIL1 when u lent the clothes to SIL2... it's all a bit bonkers tbh. Loaning baby clothes is just a recipe for disaster.

@Tsubasa1 honestly you sound like really hard work. If you’ve never asked for them back your SILs most likely thought you had changed your mind and didn’t need them any more. You could have avoided this entire fiasco by simply texting your SIL when you needed the clothes and asking her to return them then.

Instead you’ve created a conspiracy in your mind where you believe them to have deliberately schemed behind your back to pass the clothes among themselves without returning them to you, and from that you’ve drawn an assumption that they aren’t your family / can’t be trusted / don’t respect you etc. When in reality it is FAR more likely that they just didn’t realise you still wanted the clothes returned because you’ve never mentioned it.

Ask for them back or don’t, it’s up to you. But dial back all the drama about broken trust and familial bonds when this is nothing more exciting or unusual than a misunderstanding.

see the clothes my daughter wore being worn by another child and not my own DD2

Or you could try and see it that your niece and your daughter's little cousin is enjoying clothes that her auntie gave her. If your family is so far away I would think long and hard of whether it is worth creating drama with your sister-in-laws and potential causing a rift which will not only affect you but also your daughters' relationship with their aunts and cousins.

I’ve only ever seen on MN this thing about women ‘loaning out’ their babies clothes. It’s weird. When I had DS, I kept a couple of very previous items eg a gorgeous cardigan that he looked so sweet in. Everything else was given to friends of in decent condition, chucked if crap or given to the charity shop.

*precious items

I don't understand why people "lend" baby clothes? Especially if you're planning on having any more babies.

Buy new clothes, if that's not an option then don't give them away in the first place and if you do, don't be so vague about the fact you expect them back.

I'd be mortified if someone asked for baby clothes back, I'd never do that.

Lending baby clothes never works out.

To be honest I wouldn’t accept baby clothes on these terms. They get stained or damaged or lost.

the oringinal owners place a huge value On them when they are rarely in pristine condition when handed over.

I remember my sister being ‘given’ a bag of baby clothes. The persons thought it was a gift of huge value and tried to barter a freebie from my sisters business in return. The clothes where stained and worn. She politely returned them.

YABU.

Why embroil yourself in their drama if so and so always lies etc. You can avoid all of that by only doing the essential with them (Christmas, birthdays)

It seems like there's nothing for you to gain from your agreement about sharing clothes even if you did get them back. Just keep them in a box until your youngest needs them.

And if you're feeling spicy once your youngest is done with them just donate the clothes to a charity, to help you cut ties with the SILs. It's amazing how little you'll hear from people when they don't view you as a resource.

Between this thread and the other one on baby clothes I have just messaged the various people who have passed on baby clothes to me saying ‘sorry to be weird but just to be extra sure - did you want any of the clothes back at any point?’. EVEN THOUGH when they gave them me they very much said ‘just chuck or charity shop anything you don’t want’ or ‘I’ll have the sling back when you’re done but do what you want with the clothes’.

I know they don’t want them back (and pre mumsnet have never heard of anyone loaning baby clothes) but these threads have scared me! At the moment they’re still in the bags they were given in waiting to be washed and sorted and I don’t have a newborn quite yet so if friends/relatives did want them back I’d have a reasonable chance of remembering what was what and I’d just give them straight back now. Fucked if I’m going to start some kind of coding system to remember whose was whose and try and keep track once the baby is here though, if someone told me baby clothes were a loan I’d just say thanks for thinking of me but I can’t guarantee returning them in a
decent condition (as it’s my understanding babies poo, wee and vomit a lot??? Not to mention things getting lost) so we will leave it.

That being said OP, if you were clear it was a loan at the start and your SIL did accept them on those grounds then she was being unreasonable to pass them on to someone else. That said I wouldn’t bother pursuing it and causing drama now, it’s a few clothes.
Buy new and rise above it. Don’t lend things you’re going to miss in future.

Yes ask for all of the clothes back. Perhaps stop lending clothes out, if they dont return them.