Close friend ended friendship due to 'difference in morals'

[Unpopularopinion1]

Name changed. I'm really hurt by what's happened, and I'm struggling with being told my opinions, which I've never thought are anything too uncommon, are that 'disgusting' (her words) that she cannot continue the friendship. We had a disagreement about a certain subject, which led to her blocking me. A few days later she unblocked me and attacked me with all these messages about different topics, asking me outright what I think as some sort of test, before concluding my answers weren't good enough for her high standards.

AIBU for thinking two close friends, of decades, should be able to have different opinions without cutting ties? I'm not sure I have any choice but to let it go. I'm just angry.

I see no reason not to make the language more inclusive, but in a way that respects this - just name everyone, ie cis women, trans men and non-binary people

I'm not sure that calling women "cis" is going smooth anything over since many women don't identify as "cis" and find the term offensive.

Yes, most women don't identify as either "cis" or trans. We don't need labels forced on us by another group, which relate to an ideological world view we don't share.

Posting on social media isn't always virtue signalling Indeed, but the idea of a 'friend' lashing out at me because they thought I should post about something like BLM and I hadn't is utterly baffling. Basically to me it seems like thoughtcrime.

My0My, I agree. I was probably guilty of using 'Tory' as an insult when I was in my 20s and newly 'politicised' (although not at all informed, I readily admit now).
But I'm a grown-up now and I get so sick of people my age and older still hurling it around like a bunch of students who fancy themselves as communists.
I've never voted Tory, but I don't always vote Labour either. And I even agree with and admire some of the things Thatcher did. And I grew up in an ex-mining area in Derbyshire in the early 80s, so I'm not talking from some sort of cosy bubble.

I’ve never voted Tory but I will do unless the Labour Party can bring themselves to say what a woman is. There’s plenty to dislike about the Tories but they do belatedly seem to have remembered that women exist. They are not actively promoting putting rapists in women’s prisons. They don’t have local councillors who are trans telling women to ‘suck my girl dick’. This is all Labour and we are supposed to love it.

Who has the moral high ground here, remind me?

Greyt, I think most of the critics see the difference between virtue signalling and using SM in a positive way. I use SM a lot, and have friends in both camps. A lot of the virtue signallers share loads of stuff both negative and positive- it may be a black square today, and a 'share if you think every school should be allowed to do a nativity' the next.

And Tory as the latest insult- yes! I have deep thinking, socially responsible family members who vote conservative. They don't do it because they hate poor people of want to get rich off the backs of other people. They do it because their reading of the policies makes sense to them. Infuriating but there we are!

Don't be so disingenuous greyt

Read up thread a bit, the violent language used by many in response to JKR goes far, far beyond disagreement.

Not to acknowledge that, to dismiss it as you did, is to be complicit in that aggression.

We see you!

it may be a black square today, and a 'share if you think every school should be allowed to do a nativity' the next.

Yes well I agree that example of the nativity doesn't really help or support. The black square actually was good when people did it properly and followed it up with useful posts.
I'm referring to actual information such as statistics, links to websites/petitions, reading materials and so on. I've seen a lot of my white friends post things like I've just mentioned to share the knowledge they have gained and encourage others to do the same. I personally think that's a great way to use it. But I wouldn't shame someone for not posting anything at all. But people do need to understand white silence is a major part of the problem

AngryFeminist I’d love to know what you’re angry about, as you seem quite happy to role over and permit male bodied people to have their own way in almost every matter, including labelling women, in order to appease them. I’m not ‘cis’, thank you and I resent that sexist, misogynistic label. I’m a woman.

I think I can see where she is coming from (whilst also thinking she might be a loon).

She's absolutely right that the world is becoming more progressive in parts and if her part is moving in a different direction and loving the change from the old order (which I think is overdue) then anything else appears substandard and lazy. I have a few friends like this. They are massively 'into' certain issues (things I don't disagree with) but with the zeal of the convert. It's about finding security in a fractured society I think.

Re your statement about not wanting women's rights erased: you won't read it much on MN because of its slant but this is a signifier that you aren't going to be open to seeing anything beyond the view that's promulgated on here. It doesn't matter if your stance is actually broader than that (as you've tried to say it is), you've said the words now and signalled that you are "with" the worst of the ones who bang on about changing rooms. "I don't want women's rights to be erased" presumably seemed like a good catchphrase at some point but I think it's on a bit more of a war footing than maybe people mean to be. I wonder if that's why she's gone into battle with you.

(I have a couple of MN RL friends who have tried it on me and I just let it go tbh. It is majorly aggressive and they are so angry and I am just never going to be that angry about trans rights.)

Anyway, she's clearly a bit of a horror and you are no doubt better off out of it. Attacking someone who isn't that interested is only rarely worth it.

Catch phrase????!!!!

Catch phrase!!?

She’s demanding that you join her cult and if not, she’ll continue with her lies and verbal attacks, like so many in her cult, while complaining that you’re not being ‘kind’. The usual hypocrisy of the woke.

You are well rid of her. She sounds a bit unhinged

Read up thread a bit, the violent language used by many in response to JKR goes far, far beyond disagreement.

I am aware of the violent language being used and I do not agree with that nor did I say I did. But on here I've seen posters who have politely stated they don't agree with her ripped apart. Same on twitter too, there are a lot of vile ones BUT there have also been polite ones who simply stated they didn't agree and why. They shouldn't be accused of "bashing her".

Not to acknowledge that, to dismiss it as you did, is to be complicit in that aggression.

I never dismissed it. Stop twisting my words to suit your agenda. Do you acknowledge every time someone is bullied online? If not, then you are being complicit too.

I think a lot of people are reacting and behaving like this to cover up their own flaws and insecurities. She sounds incredibly prejudiced and intolerant herself; your entire character and value system is now determined by one perfectly reasonable opinion? How on earth did we get here? I can appreciate how upsetting this must be for you but park it, move on with your life and stick with those friends that have a more sensible and mature approach to relationships.

I’m a BAME woman and I STRONGLY object to people tell me that I’m cis, including some on this thread.

Please stop it, it’s deeply offensive to many women.

Twist away. But your downplaying of the aggressive reaction to JKR and many GC women is telling. You could engage with that thought rather than offer up yet another distraction... and one intended to shame me into silence no less!

@Signalbox @Ereshkigalangcleg I guess again, I think that the origins of the word were made in good faith, to describe people who don't experience gender dysphoria. I do however also understand that it is also used aggressively, or to dismiss women in this way. As I say, I think that if we were having these discussions in person the good faith of each side could be more evident - it's hard to tell that from a screen and with Twitter's limited characters especially.

@LillianBland haha, plenty to be angry about: everyday sexism, obstetric violence, sex selection, female infanticide, FGM to name a few. I also feel angry and disappointed that what I feel are valid fears around loss of women's safe spaces - again made in good faith - lead to everything from mockery to threats of violence to assertions à la MUNRO Bergdorf that 'a vagina is a body part like an arm': this is surprisingly widely argued and I think demonstrates a gross misunderstanding/overlooking of female e experience. So I wouldn't say I roll over, but that I hold nuanced views and really wish everyone on all sides would open their but n ears to each other!

@Katypyee

Firstly, it isn't just women who menstruate.

You're quite right – and I'm sure we're sorry for the oversight. That would be women and girls, then!

I have a feeling she had had something against you for a while and she was just looking for a reason to kick you out of her life.

And where 'on here'?

Ripped to shreds in such cases usually means disagreed with, using facts. Real ones rather than the prolific false ones usually used by Stonewall etc.

Or pointing out that whilst trying to defend some TWAW point someone has been incredibly transphobic, using Stonewalls definition!

That's not really terrible, is it?

@GreytExpectations

As regards BLM and social media, I see your point and agree there was definitely a lot of virtue signalling going on. However, I also think that much like the Me Too movement, the idea was to demonstrate that a critical mass of people - and especially white people - supported the movement in order to encourage others to start interrogating their own racism. White people's silence on racism is a huge issue for people of colour and BLM is in great part about changing that.

You whole post is really great @AngryFeminist and I agree with it. The above specifically I wish people on Mumsnet would understand. Posting on social media isn't always virtue signalling, I certainly don't use it that way and nor does anyone I know. It's actually a great way of sharing knowledge. Often, people will find some good reading material or interesting facts on BLM and subjects that support it and they will share to the Instagram, FB, twitter and then others who may be uneducated on the topic but interested in learning will read the posts and actually begin to get some insight into the issues. It's also a good way of circulating petitions and raising awareness. Remember George Floyd's murder video was shared across social media, the woman in Central Park calling the police on that innocent man was also shared via social media. So many of us get our information from resources being shared. Social media can be a great tool when used properly but it gets so disregarded on here.

I'm with you here. The term "virtue-signalling" does have its place, I suppose, but I'd be happy to never hear it again. It's so often used by people who are a bit hard of thinking to dismiss any view they don't want to engage with, and discourages people trying to actually do some good.

I don’t think the phase “ cis women “ is used in good faith. I think it’s an attempt to ‘other’ XX women like me. To suggest that we are subordinate subset of larger group of women , which includes men.

Please stop using it. I don’t know why some posters go on defending it, when they have told its offensive. It’s like the people who use the word Pki or Chnkie but say they don’t mean anything bad, it’s just descriptive.

AngryFeminist

We can do nothing to protect the women in those positions, if we lose the word women and hand it over to make bodied people to label as they like. Why have you used that creepy term cis to label women, when you know so many women find it offensive? How is using a label that is being pushed by the TRA a nuanced response to a sexist agenda? Nuanced is quite often the term used by people who then go on to tell women to “be kind”.

@Unpopularopinion1 It’s very hurtful and sad and I’ve had similar. My good friend of 16 years stopped speaking to me because I read the Daily Mail and she read the Guardian. Sounds utterly ridiculous but this really happened. I wasn’t even trying to push opinions on her, I was just literally reading it and minding my own business.