AIBU to ignore parents dietary wishes for their che

[Calmondeck]

(For background, I’m in a country where things have reopened)

I am currently spending a lot of time with my brother’s 2 DC, giving him and his wife a few hours break from the kids each day (they were going batty in lockdown). The DC are on extremely strict diets for ethical/environmental reasons - v limited grain/carbs, no milk, no sugar, 1 small piece a fruit per day. We were recently at the park where some other parents expressed surprise at the small frame of one of the DC.

This DC (3yrs) is always asking me for food when we are alone together. We planned to have a picnic in the park (prepared/approved snacks from home) and were joined by a friend who brought homemade banana bread and butter. Before I could stop DC, she reached for the butter and popped the entire thing in her mouth. I was silently laughing to myself, but decided not to react to DC.

DC asks me for milk for her doll (which I put into a little toy bottle and she subsequently drinks herself / pretends to feed it to the doll if within eyesight of the parents), we also sometimes sneak in a natural yogurt on our trips together and grain crackers.

I am not a parent, but can imagine feeling frustrated if someone I trusted my children’s care to was defying my groundrules. At the same time, this child is underweight, and when I enquired with my brother about whether she eats all of her dinner (worried perhaps I was creating dinner time issues for them later at home) he said the DC always eats everything she is given. AIBU to continue this little eating charade when DC is in my care?

There is nothing worse than being hungry. Please report them to the relevant authorities. If there is nothing wrong then at least it’s been investigated. It’s much better than the alternatives which are unthinkable.

There are much worse things than being hungry. Just ask the parents for more if it’s a meal time and tell them you’re worried. Why do you feel you know better? Are you in peak physical condition yourself and an expert on nutrition?

There are much worse things than being hungry. Just ask the parents for more if it’s a meal time and tell them you’re worried. Why do you feel you know better? Are you in peak physical condition yourself and an expert on nutrition?

What a strange comment.

OP if you are having a discussion with your brother regarding feeding of children, it might help to have some useful articles at your fingertips. Maybe this one is a good one:
www.bbc.com/future/article/20200127-how-a-vegan-diet-could-affect-your-intelligence

And in particular the quote from there:
"Back in 2016, the German Society for Nutrition went so far as to categorically state that – for children, pregnant or nursing women, and adolescents – vegan diets are not recommended, which has been backed up by a 2018 review of the research. After the Royal Academy of Medicine in Belgium decided a vegan diet was “unsuitable” for children, parents who force a vegan diet on their offspring in Belgium could even one day find themselves in prison."

I can understand a vegetarian diet, for example, for cultural/ethical reasons but then care needs to be taken to ensure adequate protein intake from other sources (just using veg'ism as an eg

What other sources?

Hope today goes well. Please keep us updated

Yanbu anyone who forces a diet on a child that isn't beneficial to their needs and is only because of their parents beliefs is wrong in my opinion. Hopefully you will be as amazing. Ow and help her speak up when she's able to have her own voice. If she really is as underweight as you say, sadly I would count this as neglect, does not matter if she is loved etc if she is small and hungry.

It is possible to be allergic to sugar. It can be dangerous to assume someone is lying about an allergy, just because you've never heard of it before.

I think you are on dangerous ground giving your niece food which she is not allowed to have. In this case it appears that your actions are probably fine but if someone didn't like the diet I fed my child and decided to go against it because it seemed faddy or unnecessary it could cause her serious long term health problems as she's a coeliac. Luckily the family are clued up but lots of my friends don't understand the seriousness and think I'm being OTT when I restrict her food. I think you definitely need to talk to the child's parents and maybe any other close family who might have the same concerns rather than sneak her food that she's not allowed. Although I can see you probably aren't doing any harm in this case.

@formerbabe

There are much worse things than being hungry. Just ask the parents for more if it’s a meal time and tell them you’re worried. Why do you feel you know better? Are you in peak physical condition yourself and an expert on nutrition?

What a strange comment.

Itisbetter's comment: "There are much worse things than being hungry." was in response to RAOK who said "There is nothing worse than being hungry." There ARE much worse things than being hungry, especially regarding child welfare.

Agreed that this Are you in peak physical condition yourself and an expert on nutrition? is a strange response though and an irrelevant point

@SuperMumTum

I think you are on dangerous ground giving your niece food which she is not allowed to have. In this case it appears that your actions are probably fine but if someone didn't like the diet I fed my child and decided to go against it because it seemed faddy or unnecessary it could cause her serious long term health problems as she's a coeliac. Luckily the family are clued up but lots of my friends don't understand the seriousness and think I'm being OTT when I restrict her food. I think you definitely need to talk to the child's parents and maybe any other close family who might have the same concerns rather than sneak her food that she's not allowed. Although I can see you probably aren't doing any harm in this case.

It must be incredibly frustrating for you when your dd's very serious medical condition isn't taken seriously, fueled by fad diet trends and people misunderstanding the difference between allergy, intolerance and personal dietary choice. I saw it a lot when I worked in hospitality. It sounds from the info given in the OP that these children's diet is restricted due to their parent's choices, not due to medical conditions. Since the father is the OP's brother, I think it's fair to assume that any medical reasons for dietary restrictions would have been discussed, given how serious they can be. I can only imagine that the parents in this case believe that they have chosen a very healthy diet for their children, but it doesn't sound like their calorific needs are being met, never mind the social implications for these children. We are social eaters and it's important that eating is an activity that can be enjoyed in a social setting. Even if the children are healthy and their nutritional needs are being met, this type of dietary control could backfire on the parents. Will the children stick to what they have learned re diet or will they overindulge in all of the foods that they weren't allowed as children? It could lead to disordered eating and a lifetime of an unhealthy relationship with food. A very worrying big red flag in the OP is the way that the little girl will pretend she's giving the milk to her doll when her parents are there, but when they're gone she will drink it herself. The poor wee thing is just 3 years old and already she's moderating her behaviour around food depending on whose company she is in.

@bluebiddy it does seem that way. I agree. I just wanted to add a note of caution to the idea that it is ok to overrule parental decisions of this sort.

@SisyphusAndTheRockOfUntidiness

It is possible to be allergic to sugar. It can be dangerous to assume someone is lying about an allergy, just because you've never heard of it before.

The OP is the father's sister and the parents trust her with their children's care. They have give the children's aunt instructions re diet so if there were allergies, she would know about them. I can't imagine any parent not informing their babysitter of allergies. But yes, true allergies are often dismissed or not taken seriously. Ultimately I suppose it depends on which is the bigger issue here, OP breaking trust or the health & welfare of the children. I know what I think.

Feeding unapproved foods is difficult ground, but this sounds like orthorexia to me. Which is tricky because usually people think they are being extra healthy and they may have crazy ideas about food being toxic etc.

This business about cutting out more and more food groups has created a lot of disordered eating in adults and it's totally unsuitable for children. I think you need to talk to them about seeing their GP.

Itisbetter's comment: "There are much worse things than being hungry."
was in response to RAOK who said "There is nothing worse than being hungry."
There ARE much worse things than being hungry, especially regarding child welfare.

Feeling hunger as a one off is very very different to continual hunger because your parents have imposed a bizarre set of rules based on their own hang ups.

Are you in peak physical condition yourself and an expert on nutrition?

As for this comment, I see we're not immune to snide comments about other women and their weight/bodies even on a thread about potential child neglect...

@formerbabe

Are you in peak physical condition yourself and an expert on nutrition?

As for this comment, I see we're not immune to snide comments about other women and their weight/bodies even on a thread about potential child neglect...

Yeah, it's a shame when these strange attacking comments attempt to derail a thread and miss the important point of the discussion

The issue here is that the children are on this limited diet for ethical/environmental reasons on the part of the parents, i.e. not health reasons or the parents believing the diet is beneficial for their particular children.

You can find the NHS guidance on what to feed young children here: www.nhs.uk/conditions/pregnancy-and-baby/understanding-food-groups/. In particular, it makes it clear that young children need the energy provided by fat and should be given at least 350ml (12oz) of milk a day, or 2 servings of foods made from milk, such as cheese, yoghurt or fromage frais. For milk-intolerant children, parents should take medical advice on suitable milk alternatives (i.e. parents should not refuse milk to children unless there is a reason for it.).

It seems clear from the guidance and from what the OP is saying (DC hungry, underweight, steals food) that the children's nutritional needs are not being met. This means that the parents are imposing their ethical and environmental views on the children at the expense of the children's nutrition and wellbeing and causing them huge suffering in doing so. This needs to be stopped.

OP you need to be brave and voice your concerns to your brother, tell him this child is hungry and that is a worry. If he refuses to listen or cuts your contact with the child then you will have to report this to social services.

@formerbabe, the obsession and it is just that ,with thinness and dieting is unbelievable here. To now find it includes tiny children is appalling.

The OP should ring the relevent services and use words like starvation and safeguarding. Middle class abuse.

This is so sad. I hope the parents listen to you or seek medical advice

How did the conversation with your brother go?

I don’t think it IS unusual to ask what OPs nutrition and knowledge of nutrition are. Some people honestly feel panicked by feeling hungry and really aren’t aware of how much a child needs to eat. The child is reported to be happy, active and loved. The aunt has expressed concern that the child is hungry. Drinking milk from a toy might be hunger but I used to eat all my dolls tea parties, so it doesn’t sound unusual to me. Undernourished children are listless, unhappy and lethargic. Not as described. I think OP wants a higher dairy higher snack diet for this child. Why? Why hasn’t she asked the parents to provide more food if it’s not enough? Why does she choose foods they don’t eat??????
There are real problems that can be caused by sneaking excluded foods to someone else’s child. What if they’re trying to see if it helps her eczema/hay fever? What if they exclude more severely because they believe she hasn’t been helped by what they’ve done so far. What if the next step is drugs she needn’t take? It’s such a strange and unpleasant thing to do.

I don’t think it IS unusual to ask what OPs nutrition and knowledge of nutrition are

It was a snide, nasty comment to suggest in an underhand way that the op is greedy/overweight and therefore has skewed views on what normal.

The post states that the child has limited access to grains/carbs/fruit/milk for no other reasons than ethics/environment. We all know that that is not a suitable diet for a young child.