AIBU to ignore parents dietary wishes for their che

[Calmondeck]

(For background, I’m in a country where things have reopened)

I am currently spending a lot of time with my brother’s 2 DC, giving him and his wife a few hours break from the kids each day (they were going batty in lockdown). The DC are on extremely strict diets for ethical/environmental reasons - v limited grain/carbs, no milk, no sugar, 1 small piece a fruit per day. We were recently at the park where some other parents expressed surprise at the small frame of one of the DC.

This DC (3yrs) is always asking me for food when we are alone together. We planned to have a picnic in the park (prepared/approved snacks from home) and were joined by a friend who brought homemade banana bread and butter. Before I could stop DC, she reached for the butter and popped the entire thing in her mouth. I was silently laughing to myself, but decided not to react to DC.

DC asks me for milk for her doll (which I put into a little toy bottle and she subsequently drinks herself / pretends to feed it to the doll if within eyesight of the parents), we also sometimes sneak in a natural yogurt on our trips together and grain crackers.

I am not a parent, but can imagine feeling frustrated if someone I trusted my children’s care to was defying my groundrules. At the same time, this child is underweight, and when I enquired with my brother about whether she eats all of her dinner (worried perhaps I was creating dinner time issues for them later at home) he said the DC always eats everything she is given. AIBU to continue this little eating charade when DC is in my care?

If the kids are on a paleo diet they can still have alternative treats. Why don’t you google some paleo cakes/muffins and bake some for the kids. That way you can treat them but also respect their parents wishes

Paleo can have coconut sugar, substitute flour for coconut or almond flour and almond milk or cocunut milk instead of dairy.

One persons snide and nasty is another’s normal. I personally think someone taking your child out and feeding it things at times and in amounts and content that they KNOW you don’t agree with suggests that the OP feels better informed on this child’s dietary needs than its carers. Does OP overeat? Does OP understand nutrition? Does OP know how to adjust for child’s needs? We don’t know. The child is happy and active following her parents choices, why are OPs better? IMO OPs diet choices and lifestyle choices are relevant. She doesn’t e bf en appear to have asked if the child could have extra for her very active trips or to try to feed her within her normal diet.

YANBU

The OP would know if her brother's DC have allergies or are on this very restrictive diet on medical advice

It would be different if the parents were just strict about junk food & fizz with little or no nutritional value
That could be socially isolating, but wouldn't affect physical health

However, they are cutting out or seriously restricting basic foods that children normally need

Are they allowed meat, fish, eggs or is this an extremely stupid vegan variant ?
==> what exactly ARE they permitted to eat ?

You're talking nonsense.

A child should be on the diet which is nutritionally best for them.

The priority of this child's diet is ethics and the environment.

The child's needs should come first

This diet is almost certainly because of the parents ethical beliefs,
not for the benefit of the children

This is OK when it just means cutting out e.g. beef, bacon or alcohol,
but not when a diet is so restrictive that desperate DC are forced to resort to sneaking food and deceiving their parents

But ALL diets are based on what parents choose why is this so different?

Nb paleo diet is basically no grains/legumes and no processed food. I’m not sure it’s really going to kill you to have beans on baked potatoes instead of toast.

But ALL diets are based on what parents choose confused why is this so different?

Because most parents make food choices that are balanced between what is nutritionally best for their child and what their child likes to eat.

Sounds like this child's diet is based on neither of those things

Odd narrative. You think the child is literally starving but won't do anything? WTF is a snack going to do if that's true? If you genuinely believe this child is starving then you would report it seriously... that's why i have doubts over how neglected and underweight this child is.

I don't eat paleo at all but not eating processed food and dairy and sugar is not a bad thing. Sounds more like she's not eating enough of the foods she should have rather than the food choices being the problem.

Anyway... if this is legit and you don't report it to social services then that is appalling.

@Itisbetter

But ALL diets are based on what parents choose why is this so different?

There are official guidelines in place to provide information and inform choice. Some children's diets are very poor - I'm sure we're all aware here of the growing problem of childhood obesity - despite the guidelines, because of the parents poor choices. It may be the case with these children that the parents have made some poor choices based on a mistaken belief that they are healthy. It does happen. Childhood malnutrition doesn't only result from allowing unlimited unhealthy food, or from failure to adequately feed children at all. I have no doubt, from the info provided by the OP, that these children's parents do actively care for the health and wellbeing of their children, but that doesn't mean there aren't issues. I think the little 3 year old girl's behaviour around food in particular is very telling.

Because most parents make food choices that are balanced between what is nutritionally best for their child and what their child likes to eat. and a paleo diet (MN this supposed to mimic a more wholefood less processed diet) couldn’t be nutritious or tasty???

Paleo is about not just cutting out processed foods and sugar but also cutting right down on carbs which is fine for an adult but not great for children who need carbs and fats and calcium as well as protein and vitamins

If this little girl isn’t getting any type of milk because milk of any sort could be considered a carbohydrate where is her calcium coming from.

If she is noticeably smaller than other children in height and it isn’t because her parents or family are particularly short then I would think the diet isn’t good for her

But ALL diets are based on what parents choose confused why is this so different?

Because of realities like the below:

“There are some tragic cases of children whose brains failed to develop because of their parents being ill-informed vegans,” says David Benton, who studies the link between our diets and brain chemistry at Swansea University. In one example, the child was unable to sit or smile. In another, they slipped into a coma." (same BBC article I cited above)

That may not be the extreme that the OP's niece is at risk of, but even if it is not so extreme, there are long term risks to children's health and wellbeing if they are not fed adequately. If the parents are very carefully making sure their DC are getting all the nutritional groups, a healthy vegan diet for a child (not an adult, the needs are different) might be possible, but the presumption has to be the other way, and this isn't just a vegan diet, this is a paleo vegan diet. Even more restrictive.
As mentioned, certain countries regard feeding a child a vegan diet as something that falls within the definition of child abuse, with a prison term. That may be extreme also, if the parents are making sure the child is having necessary supplements, they might be healthy. But the presumption for this kind of restrictive diet is likely the other way.

In large parts of the world a vegetable based diet is common place. Dairy is not central and I think paleo is supposed to mimic an early hunter gatherer style diet not be as described above. This child is reported to be active and happy.

Be a right laugh when the kid goes to birthday parties.

@Itisbetter, a vegetable-based diet wouldn't normally exclude fruit and grains as well as dairy. This is what the OP said about the diet: v limited grain/carbs, no milk, no sugar, 1 small piece a fruit per day. The OP seems to have disappeared and never clarified what exactly the children were eating. If they weren't getting meat and/or fish, I'd be concerned about their protein intake, as pulses, seeds and nuts alone without grains might not provide all the necessary amino acids.

We need a list of what they can eat,
because it would be far worse nutritionally if meat, fish and eggs are also excluded

However, cutting down so drastically on the kinds of foods recommended in sensible amounts for kids - fruit, grains - is not good

and the DC at such a young age desperately sneaking normal food - not sugary crap - and deceiving their parents is a red flag

Parents don't have the right to damage their children's physical health by deprivation diets that are inadequate in nutrients

Children are not possessions like dolls;
they are human beings with rights of their own
not objects to showcase their parents' whacky dietary beliefs

Their welfare takes priority over any ethical beliefs the parents have

Yes some parents let DC live off junk, but that is still less wilfully damaging than actively forbidding entire food groups

I think it’s grain (as in flour) they avoid, potatoes are fine.

'They' as in the parents or 'they' as in people following a paleo diet? The only people in paleolithic times who would have had anything like a potato are the early inhabitants of South America. I've looked at the top two hits for paleo diets on Google and they both say that people normally avoid potatoes. It sounds like a nutritional nightmare for those who try to follow it without eating animal protein as that doesn't leave much else.

It's really sensible to talk to your brother about it, OP.

It's not something that a few snacks will fix.

I thought they avoided grains but ate root vegetables??? I think Op just doesn’t agree with their way of eating but I can’t tell why? I find it strange that you couldn’t provide a paleo snack if the child was hungry. Cold chicken? Carrots? How hard could it be?

I don’t agree you wouldn’t scoff the milk in a toys bottle I remember eating all sorts of stuff as a child and I wasn’t starving.

@Itisbetter

I don’t think it IS unusual to ask what OPs nutrition and knowledge of nutrition are. Some people honestly feel panicked by feeling hungry and really aren’t aware of how much a child needs to eat. The child is reported to be happy, active and loved. The aunt has expressed concern that the child is hungry. Drinking milk from a toy might be hunger but I used to eat all my dolls tea parties, so it doesn’t sound unusual to me. Undernourished children are listless, unhappy and lethargic. Not as described. I think OP wants a higher dairy higher snack diet for this child. Why? Why hasn’t she asked the parents to provide more food if it’s not enough? Why does she choose foods they don’t eat?????? There are real problems that can be caused by sneaking excluded foods to someone else’s child. What if they’re trying to see if it helps her eczema/hay fever? What if they exclude more severely because they believe she hasn’t been helped by what they’ve done so far. What if the next step is drugs she needn’t take? It’s such a strange and unpleasant thing to do.

These diets that restrict food groups are very faddish now, but even for adults they aren't very healthy and often result in disordered eating.

In a child it's a very concerning thing to cut out grains, dairy and most fruit.

Vega is mans vegetarianism aren’t fads.

Are we living in Paleo times? No, it's a load of bloody middle class nonsense.

Here is what it should look like....

*Here are the basics:

Eat: Meat, fish, eggs, vegetables, fruits, nuts, seeds, herbs, spices, healthy fats and oils*