to think the Foreign Secretary / Deputy Prime Minister should know a little bit of the history about Take a knee

[chomalungma]

twitter.com/matthewchampion/status/1273534016570957824

No - it's not from Game of Thrones. Even though he said he didn't know where it came from, maybe it was Game of Thrones.

I know that Colin Kaepernick took a knee during NFL games and this led to massive repercussions with Trump getting involved.

I know now that there is more of a history with Martin Luther King - but it's the recent history I am more aware of.

I do know that it's not Game of Thrones though.

But this is the same guy who didn't know the importance of the Dover - Calais ferry crossing.

I agree with Raab. I'd never kneel unless someone had a knife to my throat. Not so much GoT (apart from the phrase itself) but definitely a sign of submission.

I thought the iconic image of MLK kneeling was because he was leading people in prayer?

The Olympics black power salute had much more impact in terms of silent protest.

It was an excellent response - just a pity he rowed back on it later

Seeing the police take the knee at the protests chilled me.

Yes, I felt the same. I know the police were doing it to show solidarity but the crowd appeared angry and it looked like the policemen were surrendering to a baying mob.

He's missed the point clearly just like so many others, who rather make excuses but insist BLM.

Perhaps he doesn't want to show solidarity, because this issue doesn't affect him personally just like pp on this thread. There's no comparison to kneeling for the Queen ...that kind of comment shows ppl just don't get it.

It's taking a knee, not prostrating or bowing down to anyone.

Many white people don't give a damn about the system racism, which you cannot separate from taking a knee, but they would never vocalise this except with like minded ppl.

The reason systemic racism exists, is not just because of those in power...but your average joe blogs who is every bit a part of it.

Many white people don't give a damn about the system racism, which you cannot separate from taking a knee, but they would never vocalise this except with like minded ppl.

I won't take a knee but would be happy to give a black power salute instead.
Am I still a racist?

I would expect him to know the meaning behind the gesture.

But I don't think it translates well between the USA and the UK.
The whole flag adoration in USA is rather peculiar for a Brit to observe and the enthusiasm for all briefly standing and using it as a symbol of worship almost.
The US flag is also very closely linked with the military and respect for their service again not such a thing in the UK. This means that some people think ww2 veterans are being disrespected by kneeling.
There is nothing like this in the UK apart from the queen maybe and we are meant to deal before her.

So yes he should understand the context but that doesn't mean the context works in the UK.

Taking the knee almost universally means submission. That's why Martin Luther King knelt while praying - he was submitting the God. the BLM meaning has very obscure origins.

"But I understand people feel differently about it, so it’s a matter of personal choice.” said Dominic Raab.

Exactly so. I won't take the knee either. That doesn't mean I am racist or support racism - I absolutely do not - but neither do I feel obliged to "prove" this with a gesture that I equate with submission.

And I don't expect the Foreign Secretary to do it either.

Many white people don't give a damn about the system racism, which you cannot separate from taking a knee, but they would never vocalise this except with like minded ppl

Why can’t you separate it ?

Ds1 has just said ‘whoever makes his zeitgeist tape needs to be fired’

😀

So I guess that most people on this thread just think that the people who are taking a knee at these protests, at the football etc are simply showing that they are subservient?

And those people who do think that the people taking a knee and thinking that it's to do with showing submission haven't even bothered to think that's it a bit of a strange thing to be showing at a protest?

Why would you think that protestors would want to show submission? That doesn't make sense.

You can't tell me this isn't a photo of subjugation. Look at the faces of the crowd. It's ritual humiliation. "Solidarity" my arse.

Have you done it OP?

So I guess that most people on this thread just think that the people who are taking a knee at these protests, at the football etc are simply showing that they are subservient?

Protests are one thing - those people have chosen to be there and have chosen to make the gesture. Footballers are making the gesture because it’s expected of them. Who knows what they all really feel about it - they sure as hell wouldn’t dare say in public.

Kneeling goes back much further than Colin Kaepernick. I'm surprised that people are just referencing that. Martin Luther King knelt in the street to pray in a very famous image, and much further back a kneeling slave became a powerful symbol of abolitionists.

It's more nuanced than just something that happened in 2016.

Have you done it OP

I haven't been on any of the demonstrations.

But I do know the history and the reasons behind it - and the reaction to Colin Kaepernick from Trump.

I can’t take the knee, as I would never get back up again as my knees are crap, I would hate for people to judge me for it.

I can’t believe this thread
Context is everything. Clearly this is a black power statement not a fucking show of subservience. It doesn’t really matter that the original taking of the knee happened in America because it means more than that now.
Some people seem to be quite wilfully thick on the subject of BLM.

I don't think it's them showing submission, I just think it's a careless way of expressing their point. Especially given that it's that exact act of kneeling that ended the life that kicked all of this off.

The USA doesn't have a non political living symbol of itself so it uses the flag and its anthem instead.

The UK has the queen so doesn't place the same value on the flag.

In America you show respect by standing in a quasi military position.

In the UK you show respect by kneeling.

The protesters in the USA wanted to show respectful disagreement to the way their system was operating and kneeling during their anthem singing/flag standing ritual.
We don't have an anthem singing/flag watching ritual so the kneeling makes much less sense.

In fact we have a kneeling ritual before our country figure head so it makes even less cultural sense.

That doesn't mean I don't agree that racism is an important issue that needs tackling in the UK, it just means that I don't think all cultural symbols move countries well.

I can’t take the knee, as I would never get back up again as my knees are crap I noticed Nancy Pelosi had a bit of trouble when she did it.

In the UK you show respect by kneeling

Do we?

The only time I have ever kneeled publicly is in church when praying.
The only time I see public kneeling (apart from this) is when someone is being Knighted.

I have seen it in movies - normally when there is some powerful person who has won and is determined to make the loser kneel or die.

Yes. The queen is our symbolic head and I'm pretty sure that people kneel before her. (To be fair women curtsy)

It is just a cultural difference.

@derxa

As I said - I haven't been on any marches or demonstrations - but I would have no problem showing solidarity by taking a knee. Along with other gestures that I can do at work.

Because as has been pointed out - taking a knee is one thing - but action is better.