to think the Foreign Secretary / Deputy Prime Minister should know a little bit of the history about Take a knee

[chomalungma]

twitter.com/matthewchampion/status/1273534016570957824

No - it's not from Game of Thrones. Even though he said he didn't know where it came from, maybe it was Game of Thrones.

I know that Colin Kaepernick took a knee during NFL games and this led to massive repercussions with Trump getting involved.

I know now that there is more of a history with Martin Luther King - but it's the recent history I am more aware of.

I do know that it's not Game of Thrones though.

But this is the same guy who didn't know the importance of the Dover - Calais ferry crossing.

But if I did it, it would feel like an act of subservience because the original meaning resonates with me more than the new one

So if you took a knee now with a lot of other people, who do you think you would be 'being subservient to'?

I don't think he has said anything wrong.

It's an individual choice as to whether to participate /find it a meaningful act or not, and there should be no consequences either way.

He doesn't think it is the right way to support BLM.

Fair play to him.

It's still a free country.

Isn't it?

Of course he doesn't know. Dominic Raab was not blessed with an inquiring mind.

Raab assumes that if something is important he will already know and therefore if he doesn't know something, it can't possibly be important.

He happens to be wrong on both.

It's an individual choice as to whether to participate /find it a meaningful act or not, and there should be no consequences either way

Again - this is NOT about him taking the knee.
It's about whether the Foreign Secretary should know the significance of it - and it's got NOTHING to do with being subservient - which is what he was talking about.

.

It's a symptom of the mass sheeplike idiotic copying of American culture that an act of rebellion to something that is ALIEN to British culture, namely slavish adoration of a flag, is somehow being copied in the UK.

Just as idiotic as the wholesale copying of the US BLM movement's goals of defunding the police, which make sense in the US where cops kill lots of people, but much less in the UK where neither cop nor citizen are commonly armed.

Unlike the US we don't have elected sheriffs and district attorneys.

Speaking to talkRadio on Thursday, Raab was asked whether he would adopt the pose. He replied: “Do you know what? I understand this sense of frustration, of restlessness, which is driving the Black Lives Matter movement.

“I’ve got say, on this take the knee thing – which, I don’t know, maybe it’s got a broader history but it seems to be taken from the Game of Thrones – feels to me like a symbol of subjugation and subordination, rather than one of liberation and emancipation. But I understand people feel differently about it, so it’s a matter of personal choice.”

www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jun/18/dominic-raab-taking-the-knee-feels-like-symbol-of-subjugation

Raabs problem started when he assumed that what a middle aged white man had to say about a subject that is of great import to others who are not middle aged white men was somehow more important that what those people themselves think.

And he's probably sorry I feel that way too.

I wonder how many of the Cabinet know why "Take a knee" started?

So if you took a knee now with a lot of other people, who do you think you would be 'being subservient to'?

Possibly to those telling me I have to take a knee to show I support BLM when I've said that I associate it with the original meaning and not the newer BLM meaning.

Possibly to those telling me I have to take a knee to show I support BLM when I've said that I associate it with the original meaning and not the newer BLM meaning

If you take a knee in subservience, you generally need someone in front of you (or a God somewhere) ordering you to take a knee - or else you'll die. That's my basic take from the movies

Unless it's the Queen of course.

As Foreign Secretary I fully expect him not to participate in showing ‘solidarity’ with the idea that the USA is a country its citizens should be ashamed of due to a racist police force. He may have thought it less career damaging to plead ignorance than to openly state he doesn’t support the gesture.

OP

You have to accept that the gesture is symbolic of more than one thing. It started as a demonstration of withholding respect for the US anthem, whilst black lives are not respected. But it means other things.

The foreign secretary knows full well about the issue of diplomacy here. He swerved the real issue because of diplomacy. Rightly or wrongly the FO aren’t going to get involved with a controversial issue about respecting the US anthem or that of any other country.

You have to accept that the gesture is symbolic of more than one thing. It started as a demonstration of withholding respect for the US anthem, whilst black lives are not respected. But it means other things

When people are doing it now, it very much means solidarity with BLM and has nothing to do with subservience.

I've never taken a knee, never going to, never heard of it until recently, or watched GOT.
Do I win.

I wouldn't be surprised if Raab knew exactly what taking the knee means - contrary to appearances he really isn't dim but he does have a weakness for trying to strike populist positions while not actually being a popular politician (which is a problem for him). I think he chose to do this knowing that a) it would wind some people up and b) most people who vote conservative - possibly most people in the UK full stop - were already thinking it. He won't have done himself any harm with this (but he will still never be PM because most people instinctively dislike him).

@PotholeParadise

Of course he doesn't know. Dominic Raab was not blessed with an inquiring mind.

Raab assumes that if something is important he will already know and therefore if he doesn't know something, it can't possibly be important.

He happens to be wrong on both.

Oh there you go, ive seen similar posts but this sums it up for me

I really don’t care whether he thinks its a good idea or would do it himself

OP you are entitled to your view on what it means. As are other people.

IMO this was a question and issue avoided not a lack of understanding. You can disagree. But no one in government with Raabs background in diplomacy is going to get dragged into another country’s division over patriotism. Least of all one that we need a trade deal with.

It is surprising though that Dominic Raab had no idea what its meaning was.

I was convinced he must do and that you were being facetious, OP; but from the way he said it it really does seem like he had no idea about the huge fuss in America when Colin Kaepernick started kneeling during the anthem.

Presumably he doesn't watch the news much or pay attention to events in other countries. Even then it's pretty dumb to think Black people are just copying game of thrones.

taking the knee felt like a symbol of subjugation and subordination, rather than one of liberation and emancipation.

I think the subservience of the gesture helps. It is a completely passive, non-violent, non-aggressive form of protest. When people in power are take a submissive stance to show solidarity against racism it implies a certain humility- that they see don't see themselves as above the rest of us.

Obviously virtue-signalling morons who do it just to put on their social media are not helping.

b) most people who vote conservative - possibly most people in the UK full stop - were already thinking it.

Exactly.

Look at the article about it on the Daily Fail website and look at the comments. Then look at them by ‘best rated’ and ‘worst rated’. IMO, this is usually a good indication of the ‘mood of the nation’.

For all those screaming ‘BUT THIS IS THE DAILY FAIL’, have a look at the circulation figures for the Mail vs the Guardian....

Presumably he doesn't watch the news much or pay attention to events in other countries. Even then it's pretty dumb to think Black people are just copying game of thrones

This. He is the Foreign Secretary, If he hasn't paid attention to the news, to what happened in the NFL and wider protests about black lives etc in the USA, then that's not a good look for him.

But maybe he just didn't know. So he made himself look ignorant. Again.

IMO, this is usually a good indication of the ‘mood of the nation

If top rated DM articles are the mood of the nation, then this is a fucking crap country to live in.

b) most people who vote conservative - possibly most people in the UK full stop - were already thinking it.

Yes, IMHO a populist move on Raab's part. My mother who always votes labour (but reads the Mail) texted me to say she was amazed to hear a tory politician talking sense for once.

Politicians claim not to know things all the time. Boris Johnson was claiming he hadn't heard about Marcus Rashford's campaign on Tuesday afternoon. On Wednesday morning he announced he was supporting it. It's all bollocks. I'd lay plenty of money Raab knows the background.

I don't blame anyone for being irritated by him (he's a very irritating man in my opinion) but he was a well-regarded human rights lawyer in a previous life and is now a cabinet minister who gets briefed to within an inch of his life on all news stories.

This Cabinet, basically, is prepared to say 'black lives matter' as part of a longer sentence, and to acknowledge the horror of what happened to George Floyd, and say that slavery was bad, but further than that they absolutely will not go, and if they have to pretend ignorance in the process they're fine with that. (I suspect LemonTT has a point about not wanting to annoy the US government as well.)

Also agree with him.

Seeing the police take the knee at the protests chilled me.