Brother smashed mum's phone in a rage

[phonesmash]

Brother is showing signs of depression again over the past few days (crying every day, hurting himself e.g. biting himself, pulling his hair, saying he doesn't like anything, saying he hates everything). He has been on antidepressants in the past.

He is 21.

Our mum was very concerned about him and contacted his uni tutor (who has been so helpful in the past when brother was depressed and really a godsend).

Mum told brother yesterday that she contacted his tutor. Brother got very angry, saying why did you do that, we aren't in term time anymore, this is personal.

Later in the evening he flew off the handle at her, saying he wanted to kill her (he wouldn't) and himself, throwing everything on the floor (pillows etc) and unfortunately he also threw her phone which this morning is very cracked and the screen is completely black, you can hear the phone but the screen is black.

My view is that he should pay for her phone. When I told him I was very disappointed in him and pointed out that mum's phone was broken, he said "it's her fault". Mum is of the view that her phone was old anyway, she's just glad he got the rage out of his system. WTF??? and she told me not to say anything to him today as he's on his internship.

Please help, I really don't know what to do especially when my mum is not supporting me.

[quote phonesmash]@Porcupineinwaiting He won't be able to get a job? He's aiming for the top places which require DBS checks, have to tell them if you have any convictions...[/quote]
Well he shouldn’t be an aggressive, threatening arsehole then should he?!

I work in a university and we get lots of worried parents contacting us all the time. Of course we can't discuss the student with them or even confirm if they attend the university. However we can take the details and pass it on to the wellbeing team. Perhaps the mum reported it to the tutor so that they could refer on to the university support services.

A conviction isn't the same as being arrested. A conviction is after you've been to court so if your mum isn't pressing charges that won't happen, but honestly if he doesn't get this under control he has no future as is.

I am assuming you live in England though, even if its not something you want to do it's something you've gotta keep in mind if this spirals even more out of control, hopefully the replies to the emails you sent should open up more options for you.

I'd also like to add that my mental health is something I normally struggle with, periods of highs and lows constantly and the stress of the current pandemic has sent me a little haywire, I'm having a lot more mood swings and dark intrusive thoughts, is it possible that the pandemic is making his mental health worse, atleast that could be something you could talk through with him

My parents do tiptoe around the problem as he is very very scary when he has a rage

This is really telling. This is not just about depression. You are absolutely right to be concerned. There is a limit to things anyone can and should tolerate.

To PP's - he only ever gets rages at home. They are very very rare, once every few months I would say, but they do happen - think screaming, saying "I'M GONNA KILL MYSELF" etc

I am amazed by the rudeness directed at an understandably worried sister here. Op is scared for her mum, and brother, has tried every avenue within her knowledge to help him and protect her mum.

Take a good hard look at yourselves and your tone people!

It's not rudeness. It's saying it like it is.

I would say in this situation where a mother is scared of her own son it is absolutely fine to lay it bare. Sometimes it is the only way people listen.

what if the police arrest him? then his future will be ruined

He's not going to have much of a future if he carries on in his current vein and ends up doing something much more serious that neither you nor your mother will have any say in how it's handled.

He needs space, kindness, calm, understanding, help to contact GP when he feels able. Not accusations and threats.

Yes, he needs kindness but of the sort that gets his problems sorted now rather than waiting in the hope that he will be able to sort himself out to a point that he will voluntarily seek help. Sometimes kindness is doing what's right, not what the person in question actually wants.

To PP's - he only ever gets rages at home.

Then he is 100% in control. 100%.

This 'oh it's the depression' is a load of shit. His behaviour is changing towards his family only

He has complete control of that.

This is domestic abuse
It's your mothers choice if she chooses to continue to live with it
Should she decide otherwise exactly the same advise relates to her as it does to other victims of dv
Call the police
Get advise from women's aid

They are very very rare, once every few months I would say, but they do happen - think screaming, saying "I'M GONNA KILL MYSELF"

Every few months isn't rare, I'm afraid OP. And screaming threats to self-harm or commit suicide is a serious problem that needs serious help.

@phonesmash

To PP's - he only ever gets rages at home. They are very very rare, once every few months I would say, but they do happen - think screaming, saying "I'M GONNA KILL MYSELF" etc

So he controls himself everywhere else?

And his rages at home have the whole family “tiptoeing around” him?

This doesn’t sound beyond his control. In fact it all sounds rather convenient for him. He’s not experiencing any consequences to his behaviour. He’s acting out a level more appropriate for a seven year old. On top of that, everyone is bending over backwards to accommodate him, venerate his future career etc.

Allowing this is the opposite of helping him.

Well if he cant move out and wont seek help and no-one will put a stop to his behaviour then I'm afraid you'll all have to live like this. Sorry but there it is, there is no magic bullet. Even MIND etc wont help if he wont engage.

But he'll have a shot at a good job so that's nice.

PP's have said that the GP will not speak to me or my mum

This is mumsnet. Sometimes people open their mouths and let their bellies rumble.
Ask your GP if he or she is able to give you guidance as to how best to manage the situation. Explain that you are all scared of him, and that when your brother broke your mother's phone in a rage he claimed it was her fault.

The more I read the more is suspect this is domestic abuse. If he only behaves like this with family and is able to control himself elsewhere. I’m afraid I’d be getting the police involved. You aren’t doing him any favors by sweeping his abuse under the carpet. I feel sorry for any future partners or children he has

Depression isn't an excuse to be behave like that, sorry. You are not beyond self-control when depressed. He needs to be held to the same standards and consequences as anyone else---just with more understanding if he fails. Allowing such behaviour to slide is just enabling it. Enabling or cossetting doesn't help with depression. Saying this as someone with way too much experience of depression/anxiety and suicidal tendencies.

You can inform the GP of anything you want, regarding someone else in the family. But they won't discuss it with you and nor will you hear anything further. I don't know what they do with the information you give them, but you can do it.

They might, however, point you in the direction of helplines. Though really the MIND links you've already been given should be enough.

PP's have said that the GP will not speak to me or my mum

This is mumsnet. Sometimes people open their mouths and let their bellies rumble.

Don't you just...

Ask your GP if he or she is able to give you guidance as to how best to manage the situation. Explain that you are all scared of him, and that when your brother broke your mother's phone in a rage he claimed it was her fault.

The GP will NOT focus an individual case of a 21 year old man with his mother.

Add in alcohol addiction and it sounds like you could be talking about my brother.
My advice may be brutal but I wish someone had said it to me all those years age. Stay out of it. Your brother and your mother are both adults and it sounds like your mother is like my mother, she will defend his bad behaviour to the end.
I was always the bad guy because I was of the belief that mental illness does not excuse shitty behaviour , especially if they dont want to seek help.
All you can do is tell your brother that you are there for him when he wants help and after that leave him to it. I always suspected my own brother put off getting help because when he took it and got well, he got no attention.

The GP will NOT focus an individual case of a 21 year old man with his mother.

The GP knows what he or she will do. You do not.

This behaviour has become dangerous and from the description appears to be escalating.

The GP knows what he or she will do. You do not.

I didn't process to know what the GP would do. I was quite clear in saying what the GP would NOT do.

My parents do tiptoe around the problem as he is very very scary when he has a rage

I suspect this may be where a lot of the problem lies, especially since the rages "only happen at home" ... is this tiptoeing a new thing, or has it been an ongoing pattern?

Interesting too about the "top places he's aiming for", since unless he's completely deluded that suggests real ability. Personally I'd veer more towards the abuse camp than the depression one, and wonder why him moving out "isn't an option"?

@phonesmash - whilst the GP won't speak to you about your brother, in my experience of dealing with a relative with a mental health issue, they will listen to concerns from family.

You can absolutely ring your brother's GP surgery, tell them you are seriously worried about the wellbeing of one of their patients your brother, and request a GP call you back so you can explain your concerns.

I have done this with my relatives GP on 3 occasions. The GP wouldn't discuss my relatives care but did listen to my concerns about relative's behaviour.

I would try getting your concerns noted, and you can ask for advice on what to do if he expresses a desire to commit suicide again, or to kill someone again.

If a police record for violence would ruin his planned career, he needs to get whatever help is necessary to control it, be that medication, counselling, whatever.

People say “he doesn’t deserve to be punished” - do the sister or mother deserve to live in fear?
It’s not your job to fix him. People have (rightly, IMO) said your DM shouldn’t have have called his tutor; he’s an adult. As an adult, he should be taking some responsibility. You are not responsible for his MH issues.

The fact that he only ever gets into rages at home is very telling.

@Puzzledandpissedoff He is abnormally clever (at top uni doing a top degree)

Do you and your mum have somewhere safe you can go when he has a rage? I agree this sounds like a domestic abuse situation.