Brother smashed mum's phone in a rage

[phonesmash]

Brother is showing signs of depression again over the past few days (crying every day, hurting himself e.g. biting himself, pulling his hair, saying he doesn't like anything, saying he hates everything). He has been on antidepressants in the past.

He is 21.

Our mum was very concerned about him and contacted his uni tutor (who has been so helpful in the past when brother was depressed and really a godsend).

Mum told brother yesterday that she contacted his tutor. Brother got very angry, saying why did you do that, we aren't in term time anymore, this is personal.

Later in the evening he flew off the handle at her, saying he wanted to kill her (he wouldn't) and himself, throwing everything on the floor (pillows etc) and unfortunately he also threw her phone which this morning is very cracked and the screen is completely black, you can hear the phone but the screen is black.

My view is that he should pay for her phone. When I told him I was very disappointed in him and pointed out that mum's phone was broken, he said "it's her fault". Mum is of the view that her phone was old anyway, she's just glad he got the rage out of his system. WTF??? and she told me not to say anything to him today as he's on his internship.

Please help, I really don't know what to do especially when my mum is not supporting me.

I have contacted youngminds by email

Hard to use any phone services as we all live in the same house.

Thank you PP's for realising I am focusing on the phone because it is a serious expression of violent behaviour

I would talk quietly with your mother about getting him help.

Her saying he's gotten it out of his system is a real misstep here. If he feels better after his rages he will just rage more.

Hopefully he can get some help soon.
Also I hope someone can impress upon him just how many adults have been on antidepressants at some point or another.

The stigma against antidepressants stops people from getting the help they need.

I can’t say the description is pinging my aspie radar. Any particular reason you say that? Or do you just imagine autists as incredibly angry people who throw things?

Tbf to that poster, I have an autistic brother who is an abusive wee fuck and he would do similar. Perhaps that poster comes from a similar situation to me, reading the OPs post immediately put me in mind in mind of my so-called 'brother'. Bit irrelevant though as I'm sure there are non-autistic people out there doing it too.

Your focus is entirely wrong OP

The phone cost is irrelevant (annoying for your mum though!).

There is a much much more serious issue at play here.

Clearly some of you have never been depressed.
Let’s wind this back...
3.phone/aggression...
2.mum calling tutor...
1.someone who is struggling and clearly depressed (not on the spectrum FFs).

Which bit of this list should be dealt with first and what is the root cause? Not the aggression, that is a symptom.

Patching up with a bit of home-spun talking therapy isn’t going to work right now unless you are a qualified therapist.

He needs space, kindness, calm, understanding, help to contact GP when he feels able. Not accusations and threats. He clearly needs meds, but he’s not going to come to that realisation in a toxic atmosphere.

The mum absolutely should not have contacted the tutor and if the tutor responded they were also bang out of order. He is an adult and uni stuff cannot be sorted by parents (we have been in a situation where contacting DS’s tutor was needed but we couldn’t. You just can’t.)

...and once he’s on the meds he will need support with whatever has got him to the point where he is struggling.

what if the police arrest him? then his future will be ruined.

  A very fast deterioration  of serious symptoms  as you describe ,  could very well  be  the warning  signs  of  an  impending suicide attempt.

I don't understand why your mum would call your DB's tutor! That probably felt to him that she was telling tales rather than trying to help. She needs to try harder to get him onside so that he will be more willing to listen to her when she insists that he needs proper medical help. As for you, be there as silent support for your mum but apart from that keep out of it.

@DotBall

*Clearly some of you have never been depressed.
**Let’s wind this back...
3.phone/aggression...
2.mum calling tutor...
1.someone who is struggling and clearly depressed (not on the spectrum FFs).

*Which bit of this list should be dealt with first and what is the root cause?

The last person who spoke to me in that tone was my primary school teacher

Not the aggression, that is a symptom.

Is it fuck. Depression manifests in many ways, but please, don't use it to excuse violent behaviour. That's not ok.

Not the aggression, that is a symptom.

That is an assumption.
It is quite possible to be an aggressively inclined person. For no reason other than it’s a personality trait.

Being arrested by the police won't "ruin his life". Being allowed to abuse people whilst refusing help with his mental health might well do though.

You are in a difficult position, and one I've been in. My parents tiptoed around it for years and years, and were abused for years and years, whilst I left home and stayed away.

If you want to stay at home/protect yourself and your mum I would suggest that you make it clear that you will phone the police if anything similar happens again and mean it. But they will both be very angry with you.

Being arrested will completely ruin his education and future career which is all he has going for him atm

My parents do tiptoe around the problem as he is very very scary when he has a rage

Sounds like he’s on the spectrum

And so it begins . . .

@DotBall if he was remorseful or shocked by his actions and going to seek help I would agree with you but he's not. He feels entitled to take his rage out on his mother because he knows she'll cover for him. It's an old, old abuse pattern, not a form of effective therapy for depression.

@phonesmash why will it?

That is an assumption

Of course, based on the info given.
Nevertheless, the depression came before the mum’s interference and his reaction.

People who don’t understand the intense frustration which can lead to aggression borne out out of feeling trapped and depressed have never been there. Just saying.

Typical of MN though to assume the worst though, and that the behaviour must be a deep-seated personality trait needing red flags.

@DotBall

Clearly some of you have never been depressed. Let’s wind this back... 3.phone/aggression... 2.mum calling tutor... 1.someone who is struggling and clearly depressed (not on the spectrum FFs).

Which bit of this list should be dealt with first and what is the root cause? Not the aggression, that is a symptom.

Patching up with a bit of home-spun talking therapy isn’t going to work right now unless you are a qualified therapist.

He needs space, kindness, calm, understanding, help to contact GP when he feels able. Not accusations and threats. He clearly needs meds, but he’s not going to come to that realisation in a toxic atmosphere.

The mum absolutely should not have contacted the tutor and if the tutor responded they were also bang out of order. He is an adult and uni stuff cannot be sorted by parents (we have been in a situation where contacting DS’s tutor was needed but we couldn’t. You just can’t.)

This!

@Porcupineinwaiting He won't be able to get a job? He's aiming for the top places which require DBS checks, have to tell them if you have any convictions...

Sorry if I missed it, op, but is your brother likely to be using drugs, or drinking excessively?

My parents do tiptoe around the problem as he is very very scary when he has a rage

You need to speak to the GP asap. It sounds as if the situation could become dangerous.

I am amazed by the rudeness directed at an understandably worried sister here. Op is scared for her mum, and brother, has tried every avenue within her knowledge to help him and protect her mum.
Take a good hard look at yourselves and your tone people!

Op this must be frightening for you and your parents but he needs MH help fast and to understand his temper is not ok.
Seek advice from places like MIND and see if he can move out to lower the risk and tension, he is 21 so there is a limit to what you can do but you and your parents must stay safe first.

@phonesmash do you think he'll keep his top job the first time he blows and smashes up the office? Or could it be that he only ever behaves this way at home? If it's the latter, its abuse. But the police are unlikely to press charges against your parents wishes so I wouldn't worry about that. They'll just try and calm things down.

Typical of MN though to assume the worst though, and that the behaviour must be a deep-seated personality trait needing red flags.

Typical of most normal thinkers I should say.

Being a cunt doesn't come from being depressed. Oh yes, I understand it may produce frustration and aggression but the majority people are able to avoid being abusive to their own mothers when this happens.

Excusing this kind of repeated abuse that has a mother tip toeing around on edge in her own house is ridiculous.

And the 'oh but he won't get a job' shite seriously? He is either so badly affected by his depression that he cannot control himself or he is able to hold down a top level job - it can't be both.

He is an abusive man because he has been excused it. The more excuses the worse it gets.

[quote Porcupineinwaiting]@DotBall if he was remorseful or shocked by his actions and going to seek help I would agree with you but he's not. He feels entitled to take his rage out on his mother because he knows she'll cover for him. It's an old, old abuse pattern, not a form of effective therapy for depression.[/quote]
Yep. The no remorse bit is worrying.

What is he like with other people? Is he having any issues with work? Because if he's as depressed and reactive as this, I can't imagine he's acting normally there.

@HunkyPunk he doesn't drink or take drugs, no

@Tavannach PP's have said that the GP will not speak to me or my mum

@dragongirl10 thank you so much for understanding. Moving out isn't an option for him