Brother smashed mum's phone in a rage

[phonesmash]

Brother is showing signs of depression again over the past few days (crying every day, hurting himself e.g. biting himself, pulling his hair, saying he doesn't like anything, saying he hates everything). He has been on antidepressants in the past.

He is 21.

Our mum was very concerned about him and contacted his uni tutor (who has been so helpful in the past when brother was depressed and really a godsend).

Mum told brother yesterday that she contacted his tutor. Brother got very angry, saying why did you do that, we aren't in term time anymore, this is personal.

Later in the evening he flew off the handle at her, saying he wanted to kill her (he wouldn't) and himself, throwing everything on the floor (pillows etc) and unfortunately he also threw her phone which this morning is very cracked and the screen is completely black, you can hear the phone but the screen is black.

My view is that he should pay for her phone. When I told him I was very disappointed in him and pointed out that mum's phone was broken, he said "it's her fault". Mum is of the view that her phone was old anyway, she's just glad he got the rage out of his system. WTF??? and she told me not to say anything to him today as he's on his internship.

Please help, I really don't know what to do especially when my mum is not supporting me.

There is a reason though, he got angry BECAUSE my mum contacted his tutor. So it seems to have stemmed from the depression

@SnuggyBuggy we don't. :(

He is abnormally clever (at top uni doing a top degree)

This is not abnormal. There are other people who do the same.

Do you and your mum have somewhere safe you can go when he has a rage?

Right idea, wrong question.

He needs to leave.

There is a reason though, he got angry BECAUSE my mum contacted his tutor. So it seems to have stemmed from the depression

Bollocks. You are excusing him again

Yes, her contacting the tutor made him angry, it did not make him act abusively upon that anger.

You need to phone the police, you have to protect yourselves and I agree he shouldn't be living with you.

He is abnormally clever (at top uni doing a top degree)

So he'll clearly have the knowledge about what support is available if he chooses to research it - except it seems he doesn't choose

Can I ask why him moving out "isn't an option"?

Do tell GP. They will note it down. They might be able to get mental health services if it is severe enough - if he does not have mental capacity. They may be able to advise on what to do if there is a further episode of rage/suicidal episode (eg maybe give a contact number). Don’t provoke him, don’t tell him you have spoken to GP. Keep safe and move away if he gets angry. If he is in immediate risk of harm to himself or others, call 999 (they will not necessarily arrest him if you explain the situation with his mental health - it sounds as if they might need to take him to get an urgent mental health assessment if he gets in that state).

My brother used to get v angry, but not suicidal. He did improve as he got older (late 20s).

Being depressed, or abnormally clever doesn’t mean someone isn’t abuse, nor is it an excuse. He gets so angry at your mum he hurts himself, threatens her and breaks property- but only at home where he knows there are no consequences.

He was entitled to be cross at your mum contacting his tutor, he’s an adult, but there must have been some pretty extreme behaviour to make her feel she needed to so the cause of this tantrum is a red herring.

He is abusing your family- he may also be ill, but he’s refusing to deal with it so needs a short, sharp, shock. Better get it deal with now, the pressure of a “top job” will only make it worse, both for hims and those around him

There is a reason though, he got angry BECAUSE my mum contacted his tutor.

It's how he expresses his anger that's the problem not why.

He is abnormally clever (at top uni doing a top degree)

All the more reason to temper his planet-sized sense of entitlement NOW.

OP if I walked up to you in the Sainsbury’s car park, ranted a bit, threw your phone to the floor and then explained to you that it was as all your fault because I was depressed, what would you make of that?

So he controls himself everywhere else?

And his rages at home have the whole family “tiptoeing around” him?
This doesn’t sound beyond his control. In fact it all sounds rather convenient for him. He’s not experiencing any consequences to his behaviour. He’s acting out a level more appropriate for a seven year old. On top of that, everyone is bending over backwards to accommodate him, venerate his future career etc.

Allowing this is the opposite of helping him

Absolutely agree.

I've had depression for years. Bollocks that it's an excuse for violence. Don't insult the rest of us. Regardless of his depression his behaviour is aggressive and violent, its doesn't let him off the hook

I understand what you are all saying but what do I do short of contacting MIND/GP? I am not willing to call the police just in case matters become worse (e.g. suicide attempt)

apart from*
I will contact MIND/GP

I understand what you are all saying but what do I do short of contacting MIND/GP? I am not willing to call the police just in case matters become worse (e.g. suicide attempt)

Nothing. You and your mum seem happy to let it go and excuse it as depression. There is no option for him to leave in order to ensure your safety and you don't want to report his violence. There is no magic answer here. You either want him to stop or you don't. It sounds like the latter still.

If he is experiencing a mental health crisis to the point of harming himself or others he needs immediate help. That may involve 'sectioning' him against his will. But that is not your decision to make.

@DotBall if he was remorseful or shocked by his actions and going to seek help I would agree with you but he's not

This is key, I believe, though lots of abusers do express regret for their abuse and continue abusing, your brother seems to feel entitled to mistreat your mother adn your mothers seems to believe that he is entitled to use her as a punching bag.

I fear that, under the circumstances he is going to treat other women in his life like this too, so he might end up with a fabulous career but not a fabulous life.

Sorry, OP, that I can't offer any solutions.

I understand what you are all saying but what do I do short of contacting MIND/GP

The situation is beyond your capability or your parents' capabilities. You can't make it better. Only your brother can do that. It sounds to me like he needs professional help most probably medical intervention. Your GP will have dealt with similar situations and I would ask their advice.

I am not willing to call the police just in case matters become worse (e.g. suicide attempt)

He really has got you all dancing to his tune hasn't he?
Worrying to think what might happen to any partner who gets involved with him, given the controlling techniques he's perfecting with the family's enablement

My BIL was very like this, although he was also an alcoholic and also often on drugs. Behaviour-wise though, he was just as abusive to anyone around him and just as scary when his temper flared. He also was/is depressed. He lived with my MIL for quite a long time during which there were a variety of incidents and he regularly plundered her bank account with her full knowledge and permission (because she was scared of him, but she wouldn’t admit that at the time). He lashed out around him quite often too,seemingly on little or no provocation.

MIL always excused his behaviour and acted as though the sun shone out of his arse. He was also her poor, misunderstood golden child. Which didn’t help at all. Perhaps some of that stemmed from her fear of him, I don’t know. Eventually she did throw him out and for a while she was a different and happier person ........... until she allowed him back.

Your brother has to recognise that he has a problem and want to be helped. Your parents need to stop enabling this dangerous behaviour from your brother, but they may not be ready or willing to do so and there can lie some of the problems.

If you or your parents ever feel threatened by him while he is living under their roof then the police may have to be called. Don’t shy away from doing that. This time he smashed up her phone. Next time it could be her, or you, or your father. Phones are replaceable. People aren’t.

I wish you well. I know it isn’t easy. It never can be.

It was the police who did once take my BIL to a psychiatric hospital ward after a botched suicide attempt. We had had to call them on 999 because we got messages in the middle of the night that made us realise what he was doing at the time, but we live an hour and a half away. They strongly advised him to go willingly with them, or they would be obliged to arrest him. He did as he was told on that occasion, though he didn’t continue his treatment afterwards so it only solved the immediate problems.

Don’t be so against calling the police. They aren’t unfamiliar with this sort of thing.

This is behavioural! Seen/heard this shit many times in line of work I do. Maybe an ounce of manipulation thrown in for measure?

The phone is not something to get worked up about here when your brother is self harming, depressed and possibly considering suicide from what you've written.

I don't agree with this. You can worry about all those things. But the phone is broken as he was behaving extremely aggressively and he's now not taking responsibility for his own actions. Given that he threatened to kill his mother I'd be really concerned about the other people's safety too - and the phone represents where things are at with that.

Is it only depression he suffers from or does he sometimes appear to be unstoppable/working all night/ talking quickly etc.
Does his mood go in cycles?