To think it's ironic about Niqab and face coverings

[IsntItIronicDontYouThink]

Just thought about this and how ironically, face coverings have become mandatory on public transports and it makes me think of Muslim women (Niqab wearing women specifically) who've had a hard time because of their face coverings to now find that everyone has to cover their faces (for different reasons yes but still ironic, isn't it?)

Googled to see if anyone else mentions this. Here's a piece I found about it (There's more but just picked this one).

www.google.com/amp/s/metro.co.uk/2020/06/12/face-mask-compulsory-muslim-women-12838585/amp/

@ResIpsa

We are here not to poke and belittle you but here trying to see if you actually want to stop your own bubble of self segregation from general society.

Given your absolutely reprehensible comments below that your ilk have not challenged you on, I kindly as you to stay away from me. I would avoid you on the street if I recognised you.

However this is bad but relatively minor compared to what happened in Reading which is evidently a religious and race related hate crime or mass terror attack to be more accurate. [excusing the hate crime against Muslimah]

But of course as it is not what you were but what you are that counts as hey I was just a child before but are you going to take that immaterial fact into consideration. [blaming the Reading attack on Islam because he was born Muslim but converted to Christianity]

Reselpsa

God, my Muslim friends who drink can’t even get alcohol here, because the government has decided they are children who can’t decide for themselves.

Good thing I’m always willing to buy extras ... even if it is slightly illegal 😱

My friend from Egypt said they are just around 300 years behind us in terms of progression. Compared it to Ireland back when unmarried mothers were shipped off to convents and laundry rooms when they got pregnant.

HelloToMyKitty

Just to comment thinking back to university I came across so many Muslim men that were really heavy drinkers which initially shocked me as I was trying to be polite and do cocktails and wine etc at these parties but always juices instead.

I quickly realised the huge sex difference between Muslim men and women! Which is probably why sexism is a thing in many overseas counties as it is mandated by law and backed up by religion! Just wondering why it is tolerated and imported here as “slavery” was long abolished!

Gosh, people on this thread, please do not mix me up with another poster of similar but longer name

@ResIpsaLoquiturInterAlia I disagree with a lot of what you have said. There might be a nugget in there about sexism, but when you refer to 'the BLM Brigade' then that is offensive.

I heard the term 'political correctness' the other day and it gave me the rage, because it is used to diminish and deride someone's belief in equality and anti-discrimination.

I'm not trying to be woke, I have a very strong belief in equality, especially for women.

And the comments about West vs Fundamentalist places, well the West has a shit history of sexism and colonialism. Even today, women don't have equal pay in the UK, and alongside people from BAME backgrounds are underrepresented in many professions, in Parliament, in boardrooms, etc.

We are far from equality here in the UK, despite the laws that are supposed to protect people from discrimination. But at least we don't have laws actively and openly oppressing women or other groups. We should still be campaigning for equal rights for all women, in the UK and wider societies elsewhere.

@ BendyLikeBeckham

Thank you for your comment above. And I regret you do not agree with some of what I said already.

I am all for equality that is perfectly clear ie regardless of sex, race and beliefs etc.

What my gripe is with some traditional faiths here is that they themselves do not understand that they are being discriminated internally within their faith bubble and as a female I can relate to those females who do not have any freedom. This does not mean they can’t wear what they want but it is about wearing a shield ie no choice but to be out in public but ensuring no one can see into your barrier. Young girls included!

Re BLM that is a whole other kettle of fish. Not all BLM are pro BLM extremism! And if we actually look at the criminal case of the Afro American brutally killed by 4 police officers - two of the four were BAME and he was actually being arrested for a crime against a BAME business. Do understand that he was illegally killed by the police hence ongoing legal case and hopefully some justice! He was not an angel but a career criminal with a white partner (so not race hater) and the main white officer was married to a BAME so no race hate complications there! He was unfairly killed and the criminal justice system will serve its course.

I am fully aware this may be unpalatable to super sensitive types actively seeking to find offence even if unintended.

I intend to just speak truthfully and fairly but my views are just that and probably not the same as yours.

Diversity is great but reverse discrimination is not acceptable and yes we still have much more equality to achieve here in the UK but does segregated sexism dressed up as culture and religion help? Not according to my female Muslims friends who are sick of being suppressed from within these ghettos closed off bubbles. They are the bridge between communities but they are half way house as finding it tough in both camps.

Please read up on Candice Owens before you try to BLM me!

the criminal justice system will serve its course.

Yeah, good luck wth that.

Candice Owen is a right wing Conservative Trump supporter who happens to be black. I have watched some of her ranting videos. It is very obvious that she does not speak for the majority of Black Americans from her position of middle class privilege. She knows nothing of the poverty, healthcare desert, ghettoisation, or struggles of a large part of the black community there. Please do not hold her up as a poster girl against BLM.

And where does this phrase or concept of 'reverse discrimination' you speak of come from? This is not a phrase I've heard before, and I don't agree with your opinions on that.

Imagine you emigrated to a country overseas. You would naturally seek out the British expat community there to make friends, still want to eat baked beans and HP sauce, converse in English, have a Sunday Roast and watch the BBC. You might have a job and make other friends there too. Most people seek out their tribe and hang on to familiar things when they live in other countries. What difference is there when people do that who come to Britain? They are still integrated into our society, even whilst they maintain their cultural practices and identity, and our society becomes more diverse as a result. I don't see the problem or that this is what you call 'reverse discrimination'. Nobody genuinely or freely chooses to be treated as 'less than' and that is the root of discrimination.

And back to the original topic, this is the issue of restrictive rules (including clothing) keeping women in their place, making them 'less than'.

BendyLikeBeckham

Do you agree that instead of anti colonial black washing and bringing up old scores to resettle and retro punishment (for people no longer around) as if this was Southern Africa all over again - that Candice Owen could be an alternative role model to level up going forward?

I think she talks sense and inspirational. I am no fan of Orange man though! Dump Trump is the only game in town if I am allowed to be a touch political and not auto slatted for this!

With Candice you don’t see colour as the issue as all I see is a smart lady going places irrespective of race! Can’t people just judge (if they must) people on merit and not what they look like!?

BendyLikeBeckham

Reverse discrimination for me means I am the majority regular average person in any geography or nation but suddenly there is a ghetto and I feel alien in my original country. Not only that but I feel discriminated against for being on their area. They (usually makes it must be said) will look at me and be dismissive because we dress differently. If I try to buy anything in their local stores and my child happens to befriend their children I get the feeling that suddenly the family elders would try to stop their child interacting with mind. This is real life experience as I get it and I don’t hate! We are different because they find us different- not me! I want to engage but they don’t!

Candace Owens is not 'middle class'. She's from a background of family addiction and poverty, and was raised by her grandparents. I'm not defending her ultra conservative politics, but wrong to characterise her as 'privileged'.

Interalia
The man who knelt on George Floyd's neck was WHITE.

Do you live in the USA? You sound Uber privileged.

I will defend her irrespective of colour or class or background as that’s the whole point!

Smart lady. No need to bang on about how she happens to be black or what her political compass is but simply when it was about the recent Police negligence case she was spot on but happens to be a person of colour (as they say stateside).

Incidentally is white not also a colour? As apart from colourless there are endless colours and shades? Can’t understand why it is colour judgement first and not just what the fellow human being has to offer (whatever sex, colour, faith etc etc).

The world needs people like her! She is not about victimhood, sexism, racism card but use her intelligence above all else. She does not happen to be Muslim too by any chance as if so, that will truly upset so many here!

We need someone like her to unite a polarised USA! She will tick so many boxes too!

The world certainly does not need more alt-right figurehead.

I am happy for people to wear what they like as long as they let others wear what they like and as long as we can all say what we like, even views the majority do not agree with. I am content with that. I simply don't want to be in a society which starts banning things or want everyone to have the same views on things. I don't mind that many religions think gays burn in hell or women should submit to their husbands. However I want to be free to lampoon, satirise and comment just as they can on me.

I do draw some lines - I support English law that prohibits excessive beatings of children and sex between parents and children and obviously certain things like that which restrict liberties.

There are always tensions when religion differs from English law - we have regular cases of religious discrimination against homosexuals' freedoms and how you draw the line and which prevails but I think we have a pretty good balance here. You can deny the holocaust. You can say black is white. You can stay homosexuality is a sin. You can be naked at all times at home. You can cover up outside the home. We have never faced sch a breach of liberties as the lockdown laws so currently that is by far the biggest issues in the UK in this area, more than any issue affecting the 4% who are muslim in the UK or 3% who are black.

Gulabjamoon

"And 'I have an Iranian wife' is a variation of 'I have a black friend who...'"

What a completely ridiculous thing to say. I am basing my observations and views on nearly thirty years of travelling to Iran, mixing with Iranian relatives and friends.
I think some posters on here are in complete denial.

@ andyoldlabour

You are a brave poster on this forum and have my respect and held in high regard. People (some, not all) have no regard for your actual experiences and just make dismissive assumptions possibly because of some untapped psychological issue.

Political over correctness and extreme sensitivity is such a thing online these days as evident throughout this thread. Anything referring or implied to a particular belief is too taboo for those shielding within it (fully wrapped up and segregated from society). You simply can’t say anything without inadvertently causing offence to many here as you rightfully addressed and noted. Many are only here not to share love and tolerance but antagonism in the defence of their beliefs. I sense some white privileged guilt too. I know little about Iran (because it is close off to the West) but I think all of us would agree that the current USA imposed discriminatory economic sanctions along with Covid is making lives for innocent people there unbearable as this unfair discrimination needs to end too.

This thread’s original question has evolved into a proxy race and religious online shouting match to some extent. This is not seen a friendly curious offer to communicate and get along but happy for so many here to remain shielded away from mainstream society as unhelpful nonsense about we are here not to educate you crap! What are you here for? An online bitch fest? Even touching on BLM as when I expressed my support for Candice Owens (not for her political views but on the police negligence case) a lady who happens to be black (I see a smart lady not a smart black lady) I get immediate uncalled for hate in return. Hello people did it cross your mind that I may be not white and possibly also of a certain faith if a modern light touch not fundamental approach??

Back to the original poster’s question then yes it is ironic that we now have to also cover our faces with a mask for Covid protection. Those who are fully covered will technically be safer as the virus will just reach your outer layer. If I wore a full hazmat suit body bag I will be super safe too especially with a N95 industrial face mask, gloves and full helmet! That is why this full protection is used in a Covid hospitals.

Spread peace and understanding...Covid does not discriminate!

Stick to British politics, inter, we are all suffering those of us who are acually live under King Trump and his compassionless minions.

Detroitde

Best advice of the day so far! If only all Brits remain calm and carry on and not jump on US originated bandwagonisation. UK and US is pretty different and we are probably marginally less dissatisfied overall. I used to be in SoCa so have a little knowledge of the socioeconomic background there.

Imagine you emigrated to a country overseas. You would naturally seek out the British expat community there to make friends, still want to eat baked beans and HP sauce, converse in English, have a Sunday Roast and watch the BBC

I bloody well wouldn't. British ex-pats are a pain! I would learn the local language (assuming I didn't already know it), eat the local food and make local friends.

@Muslimah2020

Girls don't need to cover until the age of puberty and then generally wear the hijab until they are old enough to decide if they want to wear the niqab or not (usually around 18 upwards). I started wearing the niqab at 21 and have worn it ever since, am 31 now.

Why should they "need" to cover at all?