Friend wants to be known as 'they'

[namechangeindiana]

I know there's a lot of discussion about this going on at the moment, but I read the threads and don't understand a lot of the terminology. I haven't done a huge amount of reading about it, but I know that I feel uncomfortable with it and don't really 'get' it.

I keep forgetting and calling my friend 'she' or 'her'. This then ends in a minor heated discussion and me trying to defend the fact that it takes time for me to change the language I am used to using. I try, I really do. We have been friends for 24 years.

Has 'they/them' always been a thing? Am I completely awful for thinking it's strange and not being entirely comfortable with it?

Sorry if I sound naive or am posting something that has been done a million times. I've not thought about it much until now. Willing to learn and hear other people's views...

Preparing to be flamed...

Grief, this is getting ridiculous IMO.

I have a first name which is slightly unusual and can easily be misheard to a more common name. If I got a strop on every time someone got it wrong, I'd always be in a strop! I just ride it out, smile and wave...I even have friends who think my name is one of the misheard versions but I really can't be bothered! I'm me, whatever people decide to call me, so don't start me off on the them/they thing! 🙄😁 People are people, let's stop being so precious!

I have my own opinions on it but they certainly shouldn't be losing it with you over it if you're genuinely trying but forget.

If they go on like that they are going to lose you and you sound like a good friend.

I imagine it's difficult because, as with other such matters, we are being asked to say words that are in fact contrary to what we see (really, to lie).

Referring to a female as “he” is a lie. Being female is not an identity, it is material reality. So the comparison above makes no sense

I'm the speaker though, so I get to choose what I call you. Not you.
Apparently.

Carry on as you are, sounds like you're making an effort for your friends sake. She should do the same for you. If she's going to get wound up over accidental slip ups then I'd question if the friendship is equal.

Spot on.

@Atthebottomofthegarden

I can see it might be hard to remember - eg your Mum phones. You say “I’m with Sam at the moment, can I call you back later?” Your Mum says, “Sure, how is Sam? Is she ok?” “Yes, she’s fine... Anyway call you later.”

That would be a far more natural response than
“Yes, they’re fine..” which to be frank sounds weird.

"Yes, Sam's fine" is a solution that doesn't sound weird.

I'm in the exact same position OP. I've known my friend over 10 years and it's hard to remember to say they all the time.

I haven't actually seen my friend in person since they came out as non binary during lockdown so haven't said the wrong thing to them but I've used the wrong pronouns about them in conversation with others.

I'm quite concerned about seeing them and upsetting them by accident as it's hard when you've used she/her to describe them for years and years. You have my sympathy OP.

[quote SadSisters]en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex[/quote]
Not really sure why you’ve posted this?

I can refer to you as he every time I speak to you?
*After all, I'm the speaker, I get to choose?

If you have a particular objection to using second person pronouns, then I guess I'd have to live with it.

I think it would be much harder for you to live with than me, because you are just one person I could choose to avoid.

@FamilyOfAliens because there is so much bollocks about intersex people on this thread. I thought that Wikipedia might be a basic starting point for some people.

A woman is not sex-neutral but can be gender neutral. They aren't the same.

Someone of the female sex may identify with the male gender, and may seek to change their appearance to more closely resemble that of the male sex.

This has some meaning in that humanity divides along a binary sex divide, so attempting to identify as male or female when you are not is meaningful.

For example, a man wearing a burqa might pass through a security checkpoint in a Muslim country more easily than a man in male clothes, because men commit more crime, and by pretending to be female, he would attract less suspicion.

However saying that you are 'gender neutral' is just an act of narcissism. It doesn't have any meaning to humans. We have binary sex, either male or female. We don't have a third sex with the associated hormonal brain and body differences. It's pure narcissism.

A woman is not sex-neutral but can be gender neutral. They aren't the same.

Someone of the female sex may identify with the male gender, and may seek to change their appearance to more closely resemble that of the male sex.

This has some meaning in that humanity divides along a binary sex divide, so attempting to identify as male or female when you are not is meaningful.

For example, a man wearing a burqa might pass through a security checkpoint in a Muslim country more easily than a man in male clothes, because men commit more crime, and by pretending to be female, he would attract less suspicion.

However saying that you are 'gender neutral' is just an act of narcissism. It doesn't have any meaning to humans. We have binary sex, either male or female. We don't have a third sex with the associated hormonal brain and body differences. It's pure narcissism.

It's self-indulgent tripe.

She might not like all the connotations of the female gender role, but she'd be better off challenging stereotypes rather than pretending not to be female.

I really don’t understand how you can change a sentence from a she to a they.

@LegallyBlue

I am trying to use 'they' for my friend. I don't want to be a dick. I"m just saying that it doesn't come easily and I do fuck up. To me, when referring to a single person of known gender, he/she comes easily. They - harder. And it does feel plurally (even though I accept your examples).

What new pronouns were offered up? Genuinely interested as this makes more sense to me than 'they'.

@SadSisters

People who say it’s ‘grammatically painful‘ are just bad at grammar.

Yes 🙌🙌🙌🙌

Now I know why German has three word, he/she/it, sensible to keep people happy. I would certainly refuse to be so grammatically incorrect as to refer to one person as 'they', a plural pronoun, why should I lower my standards?

@SadSisters

People who say it’s ‘grammatically painful‘ are just bad at grammar.

How can you be “bad at grammar”?

I think it’s funny that people are saying it’s egocentric for a person to ask to be referred to as they / them without apparently recognising any egocentricity in their own belief that their views on a person’s identity are so important that they should take precedence over anything else.

I think the gross part is denying the existence of actual humans because they are inconvenient to the argument you want to make.
What does this nonsense even mean?
Intersex people exist. As far as I know, they choose the sex they're most comfortable with and live their lives as that sex, they don't insist on being refered to as "they" because they're neither male or female, or because they're this mysterious third sex that doesn't actually exist.
Stop bringing intersex people into this argument, it's stupid.

How can you be “bad at grammar”?

Is this a trick question? I don’t get it, sorry.

@mrsBtheparker

Now I know why German has three word, he/she/it, sensible to keep people happy. I would certainly refuse to be so grammatically incorrect as to refer to one person as 'they', a plural pronoun, why should I lower my standards?

I wouldn't be comfortable at all calling someone "it" though.

Good grief. Well I would just use the person’s name, then. Even if it sounds a bit clunky.
I wish thee and thou would make a comeback.

Time to get some new friends..