Friend wants to be known as 'they'

[namechangeindiana]

I know there's a lot of discussion about this going on at the moment, but I read the threads and don't understand a lot of the terminology. I haven't done a huge amount of reading about it, but I know that I feel uncomfortable with it and don't really 'get' it.

I keep forgetting and calling my friend 'she' or 'her'. This then ends in a minor heated discussion and me trying to defend the fact that it takes time for me to change the language I am used to using. I try, I really do. We have been friends for 24 years.

Has 'they/them' always been a thing? Am I completely awful for thinking it's strange and not being entirely comfortable with it?

Sorry if I sound naive or am posting something that has been done a million times. I've not thought about it much until now. Willing to learn and hear other people's views...

Preparing to be flamed...

I was also brought up that it was wrong to call someone he / she in their company - ‘who’s she, the cat’s mother?’ - so maybe everyone should just be a bit politer and avoid pronouns when you could use names.

A woman who likes football and farting is still a woman. She's not gender-neutral.

A woman is not sex-neutral but can be gender neutral. They aren't the same.

@LegallyBlue

If it isn’t a big deal, presumably the OP can carry on referring to her friend with whatever pronouns she wishes? *@FamilyOfAliens* Imagine your name is Milly and I said to you "I don't want to call you Milly, I want to call you Lily". Then you'd probably think I'm being insane but also that I'm being rude to call you by your name. You could say to me "it's not a big deal - just use my real name", equally I could say to you "it's not a big deal - just be called Lily". Do you see how those two things are not the same? You should call someone else what they want to be called, not what you want to call them. Let's be even clearer. If your name was Elizabeth and you had a friend that called you Lizzie. Imagine you hate Lizzie and want to be called Betty - everyone calls you Betty. Imagine if that one friend insisted on calling you Lizzie, even though you hated it, even though you asked her not to, even though it's not what people call you - it's just plain rude.

Still not even comparable.

@Bookoffacts I don't know where you've been living but this is way longer than 5 years old!

OP a friend of mine changed their name after a number of years. I kept accidentally calling them by their old name but always corrected myself and immediately apologised sincerely. After a couple of weeks of me making a real effort to remind myself, it sank in and now I've almost forgotten their old name. The reason I made such a concerted effort was because they are my friend and these were their wishes, and ultimately it wasn't about me or what I thought, or how convenient it was for me.

And, to be clear- I will, as a courtesy, refer to people any way they ask me to. I really don't care if they want to be he/her/them. No difference to me. But if someone I have known for a very long time asks me to change their pronouns, I would find it very difficult at first.

I think the gross part is denying the existence of actual humans because they are inconvenient to the argument you want to make.

No one is denying anyone's existence. Intersex people exist. They are either male or female. They are not a weird third sex.

Also, everyone saying that "they" is plural - I bet you use it in the singular all the time without realise. If you're expecting a phone call from a GP and you don't know their gender, I bet it wouldn't feel weird to say "they're going to call any minute now". If you could hear an unknown person playing loud music in the street you would say "Who is playing that obnoxious music? I hate them so much right now".
It's in the Oxford English Dictionary - it's correct English.

I have a friend who has made a similar request.
I am trying because i don't want to be an arsehole so my feelings on 'they' are a pronoun (sounds ridiculous to me) are a bit irrelevant as they are less important than respecting my friends wishes.
HOWEVER, I actually wish that someone would make a new word/pronoun that felt more 'singular' as in: he/she/newword as I actually think this would be easier and feel more natural over time.

I mostly struggle out of habit but the feeling I am speaking about in a single person in plural terms doesn't help.

Carry on as you are, sounds like you're making an effort for your friends sake. She should do the same for you. If she's going to get wound up over accidental slip ups then I'd question if the friendship is equal.

@westenddweller

Well, define 'new'?

I've certainly been aware of it, and seen it in use on social media platforms, email signatures for 3+ years. In the States last summer, we were asked to indicate our preferred pronouns on our name badges.

I didn't, as it's not something I personally want to do, but I've no problem with others doing so.

Some of the comments here are truly vile 🙁

Your friend sounds tedious

I think the gross part is denying the existence of actual humans because they are inconvenient to the argument you want to make.

What a very odd thing to say. People with disorders of sexual development exist. Who doubts this exactly?

What exactly are people who insist on using plural pronouns trying to convey to people about themselves? And why do they imagine anyone gives a shit about what they’re trying to convey?

It’s the height of egocentricity.

@LegallyBlue

Also, everyone saying that "they" is plural - I bet you use it in the singular all the time without realise. If you're expecting a phone call from a GP and you don't know their gender, I bet it wouldn't feel weird to say "they're going to call any minute now". If you could hear an unknown person playing loud music in the street you would say "Who is playing that obnoxious music? I hate them so much right now". It's in the Oxford English Dictionary - it's correct English.

That's a specific circumstance when we don't know the person's sex. Most of us don't tend to use "they" when we do know the person's sex.

@LegallyBlue Using your GP surgery analogy, I might say 'they' because I'd be talking about the doctor or receptionist collectively - as part of the 'surgery'. If I was referring to one person calling me back, I would always say he/she.

@SlightyJaded HOWEVER, I actually wish that someone would make a new word/pronoun that felt more 'singular' as in: he/she/newword as I actually think this would be easier and feel more natural over time.
Literally SO many people have done this. So many people. The response was "I don't understand this new word, why can't we just use "they"?"

@LegallyBlue
Also, everyone saying that "they" is plural - I bet you use it in the singular all the time without realise. If you're expecting a phone call from a GP and you don't know their gender, I bet it wouldn't feel weird to say "they're going to call any minute now

True....

I’m not sure I could do it. It’s grammatically painful. Are there really no alternatives?

@SlightyJaded If you didn't know their gender then how could you say he or she?!

My friends wife uses the pronouns they/them. I'm getting used to it and hope I havent caused any upset when I've forgotten

But should you be calling her your friend's "wife" though? Should she not have another category? "Married non-binary person" or some such shite

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex

OP are you perchance a feminist seeking to educate us all on the correct feminist thinking? Maybe this would be better in the feminism board.

People who say it’s ‘grammatically painful‘ are just bad at grammar.

He has a penis and she has a vagina. Apart from given birth names that's as good as it gets for me. I have no interest in any other description and likely will be beneficial for other person to find other friends to entertain support this nonsense.

@Geraniumblue It's grammatically correct. They can be both singular or plural - it's used in the singular when you don't know the gender of the person you're talking about.
The alternatives were all shot down by people who said that gender-neutral/non-binary people should just use "they".