Friend wants to be known as 'they'

[namechangeindiana]

I know there's a lot of discussion about this going on at the moment, but I read the threads and don't understand a lot of the terminology. I haven't done a huge amount of reading about it, but I know that I feel uncomfortable with it and don't really 'get' it.

I keep forgetting and calling my friend 'she' or 'her'. This then ends in a minor heated discussion and me trying to defend the fact that it takes time for me to change the language I am used to using. I try, I really do. We have been friends for 24 years.

Has 'they/them' always been a thing? Am I completely awful for thinking it's strange and not being entirely comfortable with it?

Sorry if I sound naive or am posting something that has been done a million times. I've not thought about it much until now. Willing to learn and hear other people's views...

Preparing to be flamed...

Always amuses me that the bigots who refuse to use 'they' etc are still quite happy to go on addressing other people as 'him/her/he/she' etc, you know, pronouns that those people identify with and expect to bu used?

It's a basic courtesy for fucks sake.

We may not adhere to socially constructed gender stereotypes but we are all binary. Male or female.

Even if you refute the concept of gender entirely, this is not accurate. Intersex people exist. They are a small minority, but they are proof that humans are not all located within a binary sex model.

You both sound a bit OTT.

Using 'they' and 'them' for singular people isn't new, and hasn't historically had anything to do with gender identity. Think about it. How often do you say something like 'if I were to ring the dentist, do you think they'd find me an appointment before next month?" You don't mean 'the dentist' is a plural noun, but you're thinking of the collective group. Or, you say 'I hope DD's next form teacher, whoever they are, does better for her!' You don't mean you imagine she'll have multiple teachers - you mean you don't know the gender of the person who'll teach her.

I think your friend should recognise that obviously, you are going to slip into saying 'she' because you're used to doing that.

I think you should recognise your friend is asking you to do something painless that matters to them.

I would honestly start distancing myself from this nonsense
Me too.

How big a deal is it, really?

Well, if it isn’t a big deal, presumably the OP can carry on referring to her friend with whatever pronouns she wishes? Or is the “not a big deal” thing only applicable when you want to make someone feel mean for not pandering to your language preferences?

Nobody addresses anybody in the third person.

I meant everyone is non binary in the way Non Binary is used now. Not non binary sex ! Nobody conforms to all the gender norms for their sex, we all like some things from each stereotype, or at least everyone I know.
Sex is binary, personalities vary.

@Prettybluepigeons that wssnt in response to you. I typed too slow, and was referring to sexual stereotypes.

There’s no way I’d call an individual “they”! What a load of crazy madness.

Just use "they/them" - it's not that hard. If you get it wrong, just apologise - it's the same as getting someone's name wrong. Imagine if you had a friend for years called Sarah, and then one say they said "sorry, I know it's been years, but my name is actually Sara, not Sarah and I'd quite like it if you could call me Sara from now on". If you then continued to call her Sarah then it's fair she'd be annoyed, if you accidentally called her Sarah a couple of times and then apologised and corrected yourself then it's unlikely she'd get annoyed. This situation is exactly the same.

I've never referred to any of my female friends as "she" whilst they're actually standing beside me, so I'm struggling to see why you do it a lot, op. No matter what your friend insists on being referred to.
Are you 🥄 ?

Intersex people exist. They are a small minority, but they are proof that humans are not all located within a binary sex model.

All intersex people are either male or female. Being intersex isn’t a third sex.

Seriously, are we still having to explain this?

World's gone mad.

I would struggle to be honest, and my sentences would go something like this.

"Hi this is Jane, she I mean they work in a bank. She I mean we have knows eachother a long time" 😳😳

Just call them they, then. No need for drama

It's a basic courtesy for fucks sake.

Says the person courteously calling people bigots.

@LegallyBlue

Just use "they/them" - it's not that hard. If you get it wrong, just apologise - it's the same as getting someone's name wrong. Imagine if you had a friend for years called Sarah, and then one say they said "sorry, I know it's been years, but my name is actually Sara, not Sarah and I'd quite like it if you could call me Sara from now on". If you then continued to call her Sarah then it's fair she'd be annoyed, if you accidentally called her Sarah a couple of times and then apologised and corrected yourself then it's unlikely she'd get annoyed. This situation is exactly the same.

It really isn’t exactly the same, or even similar to getting someone’s name wrong.

Intersex people exist. They are a small minority, but they are proof that humans are not all located within a binary sex model.

Using actual humans as "proof" in your argument would be gross even if it wasn't entirely wrong.

The fact that some people have disorders of sexual development does not prove anything about a binary sex model.

It’s a basic courtesy not to try and bully other people into shoring up your own damaging agenda.

If you are really this person’s friend you can refer to them as they have asked, it’s really not that difficult. This isn’t about you, it’s their identity.

I think your friend should recognise that obviously, you are going to slip into saying 'she' because you're used to doing that.

Or because you are a fan of reality.

My son has Asperger's and oppositional defiance disorder, amongst a host of other cognitive impairments. It is literally impossible to attempt to patiently explain to him or to 'educate' him on the preferred use of pronouns when a person with a full beard is standing in front of him demanding to be called 'she' or 'they'.

But obviously the need of that person to impose their pronouns and declare him bigotted for not complying with 'they' is far more important than his medical conditions. 🙄

There is NO specific research on mis-use of pronouns and suicidal ideation. There are some studies on transgender people and suicidal ideation that cannot be extrapolated to include the mis-use of pro-nouns. If there is, reference it properly, back up your statement.

I can see it might be hard to remember - eg your Mum phones. You say “I’m with Sam at the moment, can I call you back later?” Your Mum says, “Sure, how is Sam? Is she ok?”

“Yes, she’s fine... Anyway call you later.”

That would be a far more natural response than
“Yes, they’re fine..” which to be frank sounds weird.

It would be incredibly hard to adapt to. Easy enough while talking to them- use their name, I suppose. But speaking with somebody else in their presence- I think "I met her" or "She's been my friend for-" would be almost instinctive.

What happens when you slip up? Do you apologise and correct yourself or do they go straight to heated discussion? I think you may need to calm explain to them that they have had time to come to terms with this and get used to it, and you need the same- and to please forgive you any unintentional mistakes. Their response will tell you what you need to know.

There is no way this has been around for ages. No more than 5 years at best.
It's ridiculous.