Friend wants to be known as 'they'

[namechangeindiana]

I know there's a lot of discussion about this going on at the moment, but I read the threads and don't understand a lot of the terminology. I haven't done a huge amount of reading about it, but I know that I feel uncomfortable with it and don't really 'get' it.

I keep forgetting and calling my friend 'she' or 'her'. This then ends in a minor heated discussion and me trying to defend the fact that it takes time for me to change the language I am used to using. I try, I really do. We have been friends for 24 years.

Has 'they/them' always been a thing? Am I completely awful for thinking it's strange and not being entirely comfortable with it?

Sorry if I sound naive or am posting something that has been done a million times. I've not thought about it much until now. Willing to learn and hear other people's views...

Preparing to be flamed...

Black i think i love you.

@Sonichu

"Though we are all real people with real lives and real opinions"

Well I'm also a real person with a real life and a a real opinion and in the past few posts I've been told I'm either not "rooted in reality" for saying I would respect a friend enough to try and call them by their preferred pronouns, and also been told it's "very odd" that in my part of my country that they/them are common substitutes for he/she. (As have some Irish posters.)

Maybe you need to be less sensitive about strangers on the internet having different opinions to you.

[quote whoissylvia]@RubbishRobotFromTheDawnOfTime (Love your username!)

Why am I not surprised that you take the approach that "if someone says somethign is true you must believe them?"

This isn't a case where it is life or death as to whether you give someone the benefit pf the doubt though. And as this is an anonymous internet forum,. anybody could be claiming to be someone they aren't, but it hardly costs us anything to believe them?[/quote]
(why thank you, it's from Dr Who)

It's not a question of it costing something to believe someone - you just don't take someone's word for something when you don't actually know whether what they've said is true, and you don't know them.

I would try my best to remember and use their preference in their present. If I slipped up then I would hope that I had a friend who knew I was trying to adapt to the change, with no malicious intent if I got it wrong.

Dunno though. They just seems a bit dismissive when referring to someone. Almost like referring to someone as “it” to be patronising and like they’re not worthy of humanising because they’re such trash? That’s my concern with it anyway - it seems disrespectful to them as a person.

But whatever. I wouldn’t want to upset a friend so I would try.

First World Problems...

"Maybe you need to be less sensitive about strangers on the internet having different opinions to you."

Does that only apply if you don't get angry over preferred pronouns?

Oh c'mon Robot

I'm not spoiling for an argument, but you can't just say 'oh it's used like that in Scotland' when that misrepresents the truth.
*
Sonichu* spoke about her experience, as I did. Others, like you, have different experiences.

No-one is misrepresenting the truth, FFS, on this point at least.

@Prettybluepigeons

Do you not think that this kind of introspection is a massive example of privilege?

Do you think people living in refugee camps in Syria spend time worrying about their pronouns?

It is a mental illness though, Gender Dysphoria. So not anythign to do with privilege. But it is not one which the OP is responsible for.

Her non-binary friend is not her child. Her only duty of care is to be as respectful as she can be and it seems she is doing that. She is not misgendering her friend on purpose

Does that only apply if you don't get angry over preferred pronouns

Who’s angry? I think “preferred pronouns” are ridiculous but I’m certainly not angry about it.

Its absolutely bloody ridiculous. Where will it all end. Biologically and therefore factually a human being will only ever be male or female

@LolaSkoda

I would try my best to remember and use their preference in their present. If I slipped up then I would hope that I had a friend who knew I was trying to adapt to the change, with no malicious intent if I got it wrong.

Dunno though. They just seems a bit dismissive when referring to someone. Almost like referring to someone as “it” to be patronising and like they’re not worthy of humanising because they’re such trash? That’s my concern with it anyway - it seems disrespectful to them as a person.

But whatever. I wouldn’t want to upset a friend so I would try.

what @LolaSkoda says. Though seems the OP is trying that anyway. We all forget things. I certainly do.

@RubbishRobotFromTheDawnOfTime

Fair enough

"Who’s angry? I think “preferred pronouns” are ridiculous but I’m certainly not angry about it."

Apparently I should be "less sensitive" about other's opinions but this whole thread is dedicated to people doing just that because heaven forbid your friend should want to be referred to as something else.

@Sonichu

"Why am I not surprised that you take the approach 'if someone says something is true, you must believe them'?"

So I'm lying now?

No, I don't think you're lying. I wasn't referring to you at all, but to Earrings' belief that if someone says something (eg that they are not a woman/man), then it is true.

It’s not being sensitive to refuse to be compelled to use someone “preferred pronouns”.

"It’s not being sensitive to refuse to be compelled to use someone “preferred pronouns”."

lol ok

I had a variation of this with child 3. seeing as how ‘gender’ was bollocks she could still dress and act however she pleases.
Narcissism of the highest order and a complete lack of critical thinking.
As long as they were happy for me to be honest about how run of the mill their thinking is
Wow. To your child?
How did that go down?

No, I don't think you're lying. I wasn't referring to you at all, but to Earrings' belief that if someone says something (eg that they are not a woman/man), then it is true.

I'm going to leave it after this Robot (in terms of replying to you) as I think you are either being deliberately obtuse or stirring like crazy.

You directly quoted my response about Sonichu/your experiences of linguistic difference in Scotland, then said the bit about my tendency to believe what someone says is true.

Now you're twisting it so it's really about a wider issue (someone not being a woman/man) that we haven't even spoken of.

I'm only talking about OP's friend's request to use certain pronouns to refer to her. I didn't in anyway discuss woman/man saying they are not, in the course of this thread.

Take care 👋

Was a quote, bold malfunction due to spaces
Should read:

I had a variation of this with child 3. seeing as how ‘gender’ was bollocks she could still dress and act however she pleases.
Narcissism of the highest order and a complete lack of critical thinking.As long as they were happy for me to be honest about how run of the mill their thinking is

Wow. To your child?
How did that go down?

It's a bit like if you were an atheist and your friend suddenly joined a religious cult that always said 'child of our glorious Creator' after the cult members' names. So your friend Alexa would demand that you start saying 'I went for a walk today with Alexa, child of our glorious Creator.' For Alexa and her fellow cultists this is important and means something. For you, it means nothing and as you (an atheist) know, there is no glorious creator, so this habit is difficult and embarrassing for you to engage in.

Excellent analogy, RubbishRobot. I think this is it. The whole preferred pronouns thing demands that you collude with them in their cult-like belief, regardless of whether or not you share that belief. Regardless of whether you actually think their belief is detrimental to you, to women and girls in general. It’s the imposition of the other person’s (deeply misogynistic) belief system on you that’s really unacceptable.

Why the wow?
Do you not think you should be honest with your children?

Maybe you need to be less sensitive about strangers on the internet having different opinions to you

Bloody hell, said with no hint of irony

@Prettybluepigeons

Why the wow? Do you not think you should be honest with your children?

I agree honesty is best. and I admit i am no fan of this woke obsession with sex or gender. But you would surely want to address why your child may have this issue? I don't believe people wake up one morning and think "Oh I think I wll be trans. It seems really cool."

@LemonadeAndDaisyChains

Maybe you need to be less sensitive about strangers on the internet having different opinions to you

Bloody hell, said with no hint of irony

I am afraid Mumsnet can be pretty brutal at times. Especially AIBU.

"I am afraid Mumsnet can be pretty brutal at times. Especially AIBU."

I don't think "brutal" is how I would describe that.

@LakieLady Ah I can imagine what you mean, esp near Brighton! Do you plan to stay there?

I'm not in Brighton- I imagine this stuff is competitive there, when I lived there briefly years ago, some of the main sources of competition were food, veganism etc, exotic grains, and being as spiritually flakey as possible.

I know someone called, we'll call her Jonni, and I know she identifies as a woman because I'm LGBT and know she runs a trans group. But my friend Clara met Jonni and had no idea she identifies as a woman. She has long hair but looks a bit of a biker type anyway so people could just put it down to that. I suppose this is where those pronoun badges probably come in handy.

But some people probably do get off on correcting people, getting offended, complaining etc.