Friend wants to be known as 'they'

[namechangeindiana]

I know there's a lot of discussion about this going on at the moment, but I read the threads and don't understand a lot of the terminology. I haven't done a huge amount of reading about it, but I know that I feel uncomfortable with it and don't really 'get' it.

I keep forgetting and calling my friend 'she' or 'her'. This then ends in a minor heated discussion and me trying to defend the fact that it takes time for me to change the language I am used to using. I try, I really do. We have been friends for 24 years.

Has 'they/them' always been a thing? Am I completely awful for thinking it's strange and not being entirely comfortable with it?

Sorry if I sound naive or am posting something that has been done a million times. I've not thought about it much until now. Willing to learn and hear other people's views...

Preparing to be flamed...

he/she and they/them are pretty interchangeable
How very odd.

but then MN was never exactly an accurate reflection of real life.

Though we are all real people with real lives and real opinions

It's a hullabaloo about nothing

Precisely Nelly 😉

*A: were you talking to Cormac at all?

B: I was, actually, they were saying ...

It's very usual.*

Is it? Curious as to what part of Ireland you're from as it's not something I'm familiar with, nor something I'd say.

@Thisismytimetoshine

How come the "offence" created by this bollocks only goes one way? I find it offensive to be asked to collude with this shit, but I'm not allowed to express my offence, it's all reserved for the special ones who are so much more special than I am. No. Just no. Fuck no.

Hear, hear

@EarringsandLipstick

RubbishRobot

Sonichu said it was, in her part of Scotland. I think it's fair to believe her?

You said it is in Scotland. Clearly that's not true as I also live in Scotland and it's not something I hear as a habitual part of language. It may be a language habit in some areas but it is still nothing like what the OP's friend and other people who have declared themselves non-binary ask.

'I went for a walk today with Alexa, child of our glorious Creator.'

I've just changed the settings on my Alexa (well teenager did anyway) so if you ask her her name she replies "I'm Alexa, child of our glorious Creator."

Colum

🙄
From Limerick, lived in Cork, now living in Dublin & work in Kildare. HTH.

Know plenty of people who would use it, pretty sure as another Irish person you're aware of that.

Sorry Colum I made the assumption you were Irish, from your post.

@EarringsandLipstick

RubbishRobot

Sonichu said it was, in her part of Scotland. I think it's fair to believe her?

Why am I not surprised that you take the approach 'if someone says something is true, you must believe them'?

I continue to be saddened by the amount of posts regarding matter such as these and the negativity surrounding it.

However, you seem as though you are willing to learn and understand your friend a little better.

Your friend is asking you to use their preferred pronoun which in their case is 'they'. You respect your friend and you should respect their pronoun just as you would expect to be addressed with the pronoun 'she/her/hers'.

It doesn't make sense to you because you are 'she'. However, this is not about you. Over time it will become less awkward to you. We already use the pronoun 'they' lots already. 'They lost their jacket' for example when we do not know who lost their jacket.

There are lots of links regarding suicide rates around preferred names/gender identity/pronouns not being used. If everybody just respected one another and called them by the name/pronoun they ask you to, the world would be a much nicer place. You do not have to understand it, you just have to respect it.

When a person is constantly misgendered it can feel very deliberate. It isn't your friend's job to constantly pull you up on this. You need to put your uncomfortableness to one side and be a better friend.

I hope by posting you are trying to do just that. You friend needs real allies standing behind them.

@TheFormerPorpentinaScamander

'I went for a walk today with Alexa, child of our glorious Creator.'

I've just changed the settings on my Alexa (well teenager did anyway) so if you ask her her name she replies "I'm Alexa, child of our glorious Creator."

How generous of you to comply You are a good ally.

I think it's about meeting in the middle.. you try to call your friend by preferred name and pronoun, and they are forgiving when you slip up.. which will happen by natural accident and get less as this becomes the new norm. You can't change the you have referred to a friend for 24 years overnight and your friend needs to understand that this us part of the process to you trying to meet their wishes.

Do you not think that this kind of introspection is a massive example of privilege?

Do you think people living in refugee camps in Syria spend time worrying about their pronouns?

Alright Robot. You're spoiling for an argument. Both Sonichu and I addressed your comment & you're still wanting to disagree.

Sonichu says she's familiar with it in Scotland, you said it's not used in Scotland, I was only clarifying that you might not be aware of it but others living in Scotland are.

The whole point arose from many posters refusing to accept that 'they' can be used as 3rd person singular, in many situations.

I was chatting about this earlier to a former colleague who's moved into the private sector (we're a charity) in a much more ... conventional ... part of the country (we're near Brighton). She says that none of this is an issue where she works and she can't recall having to even think about gender pronouns since she left!

Yes I do think this is something that is area specific. My DH heard me laughing at this thread so I had to explain what I was laughing at. He looked confused as can be, before getting annoyed at the world

These topics are the preserve of a certain demographic I think. Sadly that demographic tends to have influence in the media/education sector etc. which then eventually forces it upon the masses over time.

"Though we are all real people with real lives and real opinions"

Well I'm also a real person with a real life and a a real opinion and in the past few posts I've been told I'm either not "rooted in reality" for saying I would respect a friend enough to try and call them by their preferred pronouns, and also been told it's "very odd" that in my part of my country that they/them are common substitutes for he/she. (As have some Irish posters.)

@RubbishRobotFromTheDawnOfTime (Love your username!)

Why am I not surprised that you take the approach that "if someone says somethign is true you must believe them?"

This isn't a case where it is life or death as to whether you give someone the benefit pf the doubt though. And as this is an anonymous internet forum,. anybody could be claiming to be someone they aren't, but it hardly costs us anything to believe them?

I'm not spoiling for an argument, but you can't just say 'oh it's used like that in Scotland' when that misrepresents the truth.

I find the truth pretty important, I realise not everyone feels the same way.

"Why am I not surprised that you take the approach 'if someone says something is true, you must believe them'?"

So I'm lying now?

Why am I not surprised that you take the approach 'if someone says something is true, you must believe them'?

Well yes, Robot, I tend to. Like I can also believe that you are being truthful when you say you are not familiar with that linguistic practice where you live?

Did you want me to start calling another poster a liar? 🤷🏻‍♀️

🤯🤯🤯

For a start you only use pronouns when someone isn’t there

Rubbish. Even if you mean third person pronouns, that's still drivel.

Where did you two meet?

When Sam was studying in London, Sam came into the restaurant where I was working. Sam looked a bit down so I asked Sam if Sam would like a drink on the house.

You do think a few instances of "she" would sound better, even if Sam was standing next to you?

they are forgiving when you slip up

“Slip up”? You mean stick with reality?

There is lots of research showing higher self harm and suicide rates amongst those suffering with gender dysmorphia, certainly. As there are with most mental illnesses.

Mental illness is a terrible, life-stealing thing. It needs TREATING, not people pandering to it for fear of not being woke enough.

Not true. All intersex people still come under male or female genetically.

Not sure what you mean by this actually. Intersex men might have a female genotype (46,XX), but they are still men (dick and balls).

It doesn't really matter that much what people's genetics are, the point is people are either male or female, and in some rare cases it might be difficult to work out which, but none of that makes anyone 'non-binary'