Friend wants to be known as 'they'

[namechangeindiana]

I know there's a lot of discussion about this going on at the moment, but I read the threads and don't understand a lot of the terminology. I haven't done a huge amount of reading about it, but I know that I feel uncomfortable with it and don't really 'get' it.

I keep forgetting and calling my friend 'she' or 'her'. This then ends in a minor heated discussion and me trying to defend the fact that it takes time for me to change the language I am used to using. I try, I really do. We have been friends for 24 years.

Has 'they/them' always been a thing? Am I completely awful for thinking it's strange and not being entirely comfortable with it?

Sorry if I sound naive or am posting something that has been done a million times. I've not thought about it much until now. Willing to learn and hear other people's views...

Preparing to be flamed...

But it's gender neutral, or whatever the jargon is, seems to suit the purpose perfectly.

‘It’ is dehumanising. We use the word to refer to non-living things. There was an entire book called ‘A Child Called It’ which explored how alienating and abusive it was to be called ‘it’.

If you can accept ‘it’, why do you struggle with ‘them’? If you can see the sense in the former, then the only reason to deny the latter is because you want to be dehumanising. There is no logic in saying ‘it’ is fine but ‘they / them’ is not.

It's a bit like if you were an atheist and your friend suddenly joined a religious cult that always said 'child of our glorious Creator' after the cult members' names. So your friend Alexa would demand that you start saying 'I went for a walk today with Alexa, child of our glorious Creator.' For Alexa and her fellow cultists this is important and means something. For you, it means nothing and as you (an atheist) know, there is no glorious creator, so this habit is difficult and embarrassing for you to engage in.

Woke wanky tripe. Is your friend usually a self involved navel gazer? I would struggle not to roll my eyes.

Most humans have two legs. Those born with an unfortunate paucity of limbs are not another species, they're still human.

Thank you, this illustrates my point perfectly. You have said ‘most humans’ have two legs. Perfectly true. Had you said ‘all humans have two legs’ you would have been staying that people who don’t have two legs aren’t human. As it was, you were inclusive, which is how I think people should be.

@RubbishRobotFromTheDawnOfTime

It's a bit like if you were an atheist and your friend suddenly joined a religious cult that always said 'child of our glorious Creator' after the cult members' names. So your friend Alexa would demand that you start saying 'I went for a walk today with Alexa, child of our glorious Creator.' For Alexa and her fellow cultists this is important and means something. For you, it means nothing and as you (an atheist) know, there is no glorious creator, so this habit is difficult and embarrassing for you to engage in.

Good example. I refuse to be dragged into someone else's belief system against my will.

SadSisters yeah but your example is biology. As in actual science Gender is society made up stuff.
Language is designed to communicate. Which it does...using they instead of he or she communicates perfectly the self centred nonsense people feel entitled too.

@XDownwiththissortofthingX

Always amuses me that the bigots who refuse to use 'they' etc are still quite happy to go on addressing other people as 'him/her/he/she' etc, you know, pronouns that those people identify with and expect to bu used?

It's a basic courtesy for fucks sake.

It is about normal usage and someone asking you to talk about them with language that goes against normal usage. This request requires the OP to think about pronouns at the expense of being able to talk freely by asking them to focus on a part of speech (a grammatical construction) that they should not have to give any thought in order to communicate. People do not, and should not have to give any thought to using pronouns because pronouns come to mind automatically without thought (including «they» for a person of unknown sex). People will likely automatically use «they» for some non binary people or androgynous people because they actually are not sure of their sex). This is normal use of ”they” in the singular. It is not normal usage when you absolutely do know their sex. It is of course difficult to change instinctive and inbuilt language.

As it was, you were inclusive, which is how I think people should be.

And you are entitled to that viewpoint, as are people who don’t wish to be compelled to use language that doesn’t match their reality.

pronouns are part of grammar and you can't really change the rules of grammar without making language nonsensical.

Exactly. And ffs, no one is 'non-binary'. We don't need a silly new expression to describe someone who doesn't want to conform to outdated sex-role stereotypes. That would be me and almost all my friends, for a start.

Humans are a two-legged species. Some people don't have two legs. Human is still a species with two legs. Jesus its a scientific classification system. Humans have two sexes. It's a classification system. For the record people with a dsd are still either male or female. They do not prove that humans are male, female or splod.

I think it is basic courtesy to allow an old friend a few mistakes.

@Geraniumblue

I think it is basic courtesy to allow an old friend a few mistakes.

How patronising.

'I went for a walk today with Alexa, child of our glorious Creator.'

This made me lol hard great analogy.

Why do they want to change their pronouns? Are they transitioning?

Of course everyone knows how to use they as a singular prononun. People just dont like it.

If you found a lost item belonging to an unknown person eg keys youd say "they lost their keys"

When your mum phoned if you had said something along the lines of "I'm with Sally and they chose the cafe". Your mum could have said "Sally and who else?" because they means more than one. I can see why you would say she rather than stopping to mess up your diction.

FGS when did common sense up and leave?

And ffs, no one is 'non-binary'.

I'd have said that everyone was non-binary with respect to 'gender'... so the label is redundant.

They is plural. One person is not plural. I couldn't be dealing with this tripe. This person would be called ex friend.

I would say "someone" lost their keys, unless I knew more than one person was on a walk and lost their keys.

@titchy biological / taxonomic classification is by no means a straightforward or uncontroversial thing, as I’m sure any biologist would tell you.

Why do people keep bringing up ‘singular they’ like it’s the same thing?

This is OP’s friend who she has known for 24 years. She is a woman, an adult human female, the pronouns for that are she and her. Not ‘they’.

It’s not like someone changing their name. It’s more like someone pointing at their dog and saying they’ve decided it’s now a cat and then getting pissed off when you revert to the truth.

Or, like a person saying they are now the opposite sex and making you feel you don’t have the right to speak and act while reflecting the reality of the situation, which is that you can say whatever the hell you like, it doesn’t make a true, and coercing people into propping up your fantasy is not ok

It has been enlightening and confusing for me, reading this thread.
I have felt recently that my conversations with my now adult children have been tempered by my fear of saying something which will cause offense ,or of using the wrong pronoun.
I am worried all of the time that I will say the wrong thing or hurt somebody’s feelings.
I want to ask my daughter how her friends are, the same with my son, but I can’t keep up with the correct way to word things,so I skirt around the subject, trying not to offend anyone.
It all keeps changing, it seems like whatever I say will offend someone,
the acceptable way to talk about people seems to change faster than I can keep up with it.😩

Why do they want to change their pronouns? Are they transitioning?

Why does it matter? I mean, I understand if they friends, they could have this conversation, if OP's friend wishes.

But otherwise, it's not necessary to know. I've only rarely been in the position of someone asking for they/ze/zim etc to be used (actually only when I've been in the States with work or working online with the people in question). I just followed their request. It is a really rare situation in any case, as you don't tend to spend much time talking about any individual in the 3rd person.

@DisobedientHamster

They is plural. One person is not plural. I couldn't be dealing with this tripe. This person would be called ex friend.

Now there's a title they couldn't argue with. Love it