Large dogs should be leads if their owners can’t call them off kids

[CustardyCreams]

Today, a large Labrador ran into my toddler while we had stopped in a green space for a drink whilst on our daily exercise. The owner was calling the dog and he had about 20m to get the dog back under control so I figured the best thing was to hold my son to keep him calm and still, but I didn’t pick him up because I thought the movement might make the dog bark or jump up at us and that could be frightening. But the dog ignored its owner, I tried to push the dog off, but it barged me and got to my son, licked his water bottle and the snuffled his face and started licking his face, before it ran off having seen another dog to go and play with (the owner was laughing and telling the other dog owner his dog would grab the tennis ball off him ‘if he wasn’t careful’).

Although this wasn’t an aggressive dog, if an animal taller than you comes running at you, panting, licks your face, it is disconcerting at the very least, and this was a stranger’s dog so I was very shocked that the owner wasn’t able to call it off us; most dog owners I know would never allow their dog to approach a very young child like that. The dog seemed wildly excited, and I do think in that case, on public pathways, the owner has a responsibility to control the animal when there are so many young children out of school.

AIBU to have asked the owner to consider keeping his large dog on a long lead, given that there a large number of small children out of school and it is frightening for very small children to be approached and licked?

If it is a small dog, or a well-behaved large dog, I’ve absolutely no objection and we love looking at the woof-woofs usually when we are out for a walk.

Also - AIBU to not trust any large stranger’s dog around my 1 year old, regardless of breed? I was always told by dog-loving friends that no dog is entirely safe with a small child.

The reason I’m feeling sensitive about this, is that when my 10 year old daughter returned to me (she had scampered off to play in a patch of trees while we had our drink) I asked if she had seen or heard me talking to the dog’s owner. She said no, but I explained (admittedly quite dramatically ) what happened and I said I felt bad because I had not expected the dog to lick my son and his cup, and I froze ( I should havE picked my son up or pushed my body in front of my son, but the dog simply wouldn’t be pushed away).

I then laughed and said maybe I needed my daughter to teach me some martial arts moves to defend us next time! My daughter then obliged me by demonstrating a stomp kick, and I said, “exactly, a stomp kick, that would be the right move!” It was jokey.

However we were being a bit loud and another mum about 10m away with two girls in rather beautiful party dresses, suddenly shouted over to me that I was being melodramatic and teaching children to stomp kick dogs was animal cruelty and passing on my fear of dogs to other people was unacceptable , teaching children to be afraid of dogs is wrong, and on and on.( In case it’s not obvious, I agree with her - I haven’t taught either of my kids to actually kick dogs, or to be afraid of dogs in general, but strangers’ dogs we always are wary of, and wait to be invited to pet them, and always do so gently by coming up alongside the dog first and not thrusting a hand at its muzzle. In exchange I expect owners won’t let their animals off the lead if they can’t control their playfulness around tiny children and call the dog to heel).

I apologised right away if her daughters had overheard, and said it was only a joke, my girls are old enough to understand that I’m not truly advocating stomp-kicking a Labrador ( in my house when we are stressed we use sometimes quite dark humour to get us through it, and I was utterly shaken by the dog running at my son. I’m not usually bothered by dogs at all, but this one was just so persistent, if it had decided to bite I don’t think I could have stopped it).

My daughter was very upset and furious at this lady yelling at me, and I was totally taken aback. I mean in reality if a dog DOES attack you, and freezing, turning away, hiding your hands etc don’t stop it, isn’t kicking it actually recommended? Be clear - I’m still not advocating kicking your average Labrador. But if ever my daughter is attacked by a dog, shouldn’t she have a strategy?

By the way - my daughter does do martial arts for self defence. She does not know it, but the reason is I had a friend who was Brutally raped in broad daylight aged 16, walking home from school, and I will never be complacent about giving my daughter the confidence to try and defend herself. This still doesn’t mean I am turning her into a crazy dog-kicking lunatic. Does it?

I have a large Labrador who is 18 months and still very much a playful puppy who does not know her size. She is a gentle giant and would never bite anyone however she does want to play with every person or dog she sees so I’m way too scared to let her off the lead with people around. When it’s quiet (early morning or late evening) I let her loose and her recall is perfect, but I’m not willing to take the risk and let her loose with children around especially just incase the distractions are too much, while I know she would never bite them, she could definitely knock them over and hurt them that way. I think it’ll be a long time before I will trust her recall with distractions around.
I’m a big lover of dogs and obviously love my Labrador but I would say something to any dog owner who could not control their dog, as much as I would love to let me dog free and hope she would come back to me, she is my full responsibility and I need to ensure she is under control even if I know she hasn’t got a vicious bone in her body!

I don't think you're being unreasonable here. I believe that in public spaces dogs should be on retractable leads at the very least, unless you can be 100% certain your dog will not approach another person OR dog (and I don't genuinely believe any owner could say that with certainty in all situations) I would never allow my dog to be in a position to approach and lick children he doesn't know - to an unsuspecting young child that could be really terrifying! My dog would be twice their height! I don't agree with people harming dogs or animals for any reason, but I understand the natural reaction some might have that could result in harm to the animal, and it's your job as a responsible owner to prevent your pet being in that situation!

I also believe they should be on a lead in public because even the people issue aside, not all dogs enjoy the company of other dogs. Mine doesn't, he's a large snow bread, and he only seems to see other large, fluffy dogs as friends! He's very fearful of other dogs and will go for either fight or flight (he literally tries to run away or lies down and cowers, or tries to make himself look big and tough and makes a lot of noise)
So when other dogs come running up to him he makes a lot of noise that others often mistake for aggression, it isn't aggression, its fear, and again I keep my dog on a lead because I don't know how he will respond to your dog, and I think others should also be courteous to keep their dog on a lead, as you do not know how another dog that your dog approaches will respond. It's your responsibility to prevent your dog from being in a situation they could be harmed, or harm another.

My 3 year old is scared of dogsled lead.
She’s always been wary of them and literally climbs we like a tree to get away from them when they run up to her off lead.
On a lead she will chat to the owner and pat the dog she has asked and told yes.

Personally I find people with large dogs are mostly more responsible than ones with small yappy ones and find small dogs often more aggressive.

She’s scared of dogs off lead.
She’d bloody love a dogsled.

I’d be bloody horrified if my dog did this. Luckily, mine is trained and doesn’t approach people/other dogs and has excellent recall. It’s absolutely not on to have a dog slobber on you.

Large dogs should be on a lead in a public area. My mum has a docile Labrador but she lives rurally and they can go out for walks and barely see anyone. I’m not keen on owners letting large dogs off the lead in city parks that are full of children though. No matter how friendly the dog, an unknown large dog running towards a small child is terrifying. Labradors are not known for attacking children. I know this is no consolation but the Lab was probably coming to see if you had food that he could steal. Labs do have a habit of barking if someone they don’t know enters their territory (owner’s house and garden), harassing and occasionally nipping intruders but that’s because they are defending their owner and property.

I’m not too bothered about pugs, shiatsu’s etc as worst case scenario, their owner can pick them up and take them away. I don’t like pit bulls or English bull terriers etc basically any dog that has been bred to fight has no place at all in cities or towns, they are too strong and uncontrollable when they lose their temper. I think they should be banned.

The other thing about Labs is that they have strong tails that they like to wag a lot (because they are so cheerful). I’ve been hit in the leg by wagging Labrador tail before and it hurts a bit. DD (Age 3) has been accidentally hit in the face by wagging Labrador tail before and its hurt and upset hair. So an out of control Lab could easily whack a child in the face by wagging his tail too, which would also scare and upset the child.

I think people and dogs should be able to live together happily but it involves owners controlling their dogs and parents controlling their children and teaching them how to behave towards dogs.

Doesn’t sound like the Lab meant any harm - great soppy gits in my experience- but I can understand that it would have been disconcerting. The dog plainly should have been on a lead. We have a Weimaraner, and she is always on a lead if she is off of our property. She usually is excellent at coming when called but if she sees a rabbit or another dog to play with, forget it.

In a public park, with kids around, dogs should be on leads, i had this all the time when my dc were little and even a friendly dog can be frightening to a small child especially when dog is bigger than them.
I don't think many dogs have absolutely 100% recall, if they see a rabbit, find some food etc they can be hard to get back.
To be fair labs are generally very friendly dogs and imo less likely to bite than some of the smaller dogs you said you wouldnt mind being off lead. In this situation when my dc were small i just picked them up, turned my back on dog and said no firmly. I wouldnt try any karate moves ,that isnt going to end well,my lab would find that very exciting and think you were playing! I would be mortified if it was my dog, but sometimes these things happen and to a certain extent you have to live and let live i think everyone could have handled situation better .

It works both ways ,I walk my very friendly inquisitive dog on her lead ,I don't let her off the amount of times small children want to pet her even in these times ,with their parents just letting them however ,she's a beagle and very cute

I think those people who are arguing for dogs to be on the lead at all times in public maybe don’t realise that most dogs do need off lead exercise and to play and socialise with other dogs, run around etc. I get that if a dog approaches a child and scares them/licks them or whatever it’s not great but I don’t think all dogs on the lead is the right balance/a propionate response. In my local park there are areas which dogs are not allowed in and I think that’s the right balance - most people use that area for picnics etc or if they/their kids are scared of dogs to hang out. And dogs are allowed (obviously still subject to certain behaviour conditions) off lead in the other areas.

Wish more parks would do this - we all need to be able to access green space and if there are issues with people sharing spaces (which I think there are judging by how frequently these threads come up) then maybe having some separate and some shared spaces would be good.

Dogs with poor recall is a real bugbear of mine at the moment. DS2 is 4 but tiny and has more than once been knocked over by over-enthusiastic dogs with the result that he's pretty scared of them.

We had a dog come up to us recently and start barking at us. Owner called it and it ignored her and kept barking. DS2 started crying and I picked him up. Owner started wittering about how the dog is harmless and I should teach my child not to be scared of dogs, without actually attempting to take hold of the dog. Dog continued to bark and I asked the owner if she could take hold of the dog as DS2 was scared. She swore at me and told me her dog has a right to be there and children shouldn't leave the house.

NB- I realise this is an extreme example and most dog owners are lovely responsible people. Met a lovely lady the other day with a gorgeous lab. When they were some metres away she stopped and put him on the lead and said he's a bit bouncy around children and she knows some kids find it intimidating. I was very grateful to her and told her so.

I'm a dog owner and agree all dogs should be on leads.
One of our rescue dogs isn't good with others, it was a long and slow process getting him happy with sharing his space at home.
When we're out walking I get fed up of asking people to put their dog on a lead for them to say 'don't worry he's friendly' I just tell them 'yeah but my dog isn't' now.

If your dog doesn't have good recall it should not be allowed off the lead in public areas regardless of size - from tiny chihuahua to great dane. If an owner knows they cannot control their dog they should buy a long training lead or an extending lead to allow them to maintain control whilst excercising and allowing a level of freedom for the dog. Unfortunately some people give responsible dog owners a bad name.

OP, I completely agree with you. After my on lead dog was attacked by a wolf hound, I utterly despise off leash dogs rushing me and my dogs.

That particular dog that was attacked was a beautiful boy. The attack didn't make him dog aggressive, thank goodness. We were at a beach, minding our own business, and an off leash dog raced up to him. I made a fuss. The owner goes "but your dog looks friendly". I said he is, it's me you've got to worry about! He was shocked.

These days, I've got a small white fluffy AKA dog bait (as in very likely to be attacked). I had an offlead dog rush my two and oh my oh goodness did I give that owner a mouthful. It was made worse by the fact we were quite literally standing outside an off leash park where the dog could have run around and not impacted us. I did draw stares with my yelling...

As for labs, got to say I don't trust them. The most vicious, drag their owners across the street to attack you, dogs in my neighbourhood are labs. There's 5 of them. Makes me wonder if they're from the same breeder as it isn't a prevelant temperament in labs.

@Panicmode1 are you having a laugh! People shouldnt take their kids out how about keep your dog on a lead! How entitled.

@Blahblooblah have ever stopped to consider people don’t want your dog near them! And that is ok. Your attitude is arrogant.

@davincitoad - have you read all of my posts - I have repeatedly said I have my dog on a lead ALL THE TIME around children.

However, where I live, there is a large park, where children can play and dogs have to be on leads, and then beyond that, there is a 'known dog park' where dogs have always been off lead. Children and families are now in the dog park where dogs are allowed off lead and moaning about the dogs - even though there is a HUGE space that they could be in, where dogs would not bother them....those of us who ARE responsible, and who therefore have their dogs on leads around these children whose parents now expect to be in the 'dog space' and ask for no dogs to be there, are finding THEIR entitlement slightly irritating as we have walked there for years without having to worry about our dogs being off lead.

Again, as you obviously didn't read my previous posts, there are FAR more people in far less space and therefore we have to be respectful of each other. I'm not sure how that is ME being entitled...?!

I live in a rural town where chocolate labs seem to be mandatory.

If you are adamant that your dog must have off-lead exercise and it doesn’t have good recall then you need to buy enough land to exercise that dog or take it to a dedicated dog walking area. If you can’t do that then I don’t think you can have a dog. I’d say 90 per cent of the dog owners near us are completely irresponsible, have never even thought of training their dog and think it’s fine to them to run at people and at other dogs while bimbling half-heartedly after them doing a weak laugh.

And not only do I want to not be bitten by your dog, I also don’t want its disgusting saliva all over me or its paw prints all over the bottom of my coat.

I used to like dogs. I’m sick to the back teeth of them now.

Went to the local park last week with two DS. Kids were playing nicely, and happened to meet some school friends, which was nice. I chatted to some mums. All socially distanced. Lovely to see them.
Then a big Labrador runs up and starts whizzing about in and amongst all the kids. DS5 runs away from it, behind a tree. Dog keeps running about. DS keeps screaming. I go over. He hides behind my leg. I pick him up.
Dog owner eventually turns up, shouting at dog, which ignores her. Eventually she manages to grab its collar and put it on lead.
"Oh dear, does he have a problem with dogs? Has he had a bad experience with one?" she says. Like it's DS's fault. Not hers.
"He's wary of big dogs running up to him". I said.
"Yes, he's f*ing having one now", I wish I had said.
No apology. Just wandered off with dog.

@Davincitoad

If you read I said my dog rarely goes near people, and I go to a dog park. He isn't interested in people and will generally only go near people if that person tries to get his attention, but he may walk within a couple of metres of someone while getting a to b and if that bothers someone then in my opinion they shouldn't be in a dog park.

I appreciate the difference if it was a pic nic area or a family oriented beach or something. I wouldn't let him off there.

I'm not keeping my dog on a lead all the time and depriving him of fun just incase he brushes past someone who might just prefer he didnt. I'd rather peoples toddlers didn't chase my dog and grab onto his tail and ears but I can get over the mild inconvenience of that just as someone can get over the mild inconvenience of having a dog in their path.

Theres many things designed for the entertainment of kids such as play areas, parties, TV shows, nursery rhymes etc. My dog's fun is playing with his dog friends at the dog park once a day and I don't really care if it's arrogant that I dont care if I inconvenience a families walk around the park to allow him that.

Luckily where I live about 99% of the people passing through the park enjoy seeing the dogs play anyway and pretty much all dogs are off leads. So im not ruining my dogs happiness to satisfy that 1%.

All dogs without a solid recall, regardless of size, should be leashed in public areas. The rest of your lengthy post is irrelevant.

Having said that I can’t wait for schools to start back so dog owners can have our regular, peaceful walks - without hysterical parents and their precious kids throwing food and litter everywhere - back.

Yes, of course dogs who can’t be recalled should be on leads and there’s a responsibility that works both ways (dog owners being respectful, and parents asking if children can pet etc).

However, you are completely unreasonable to even joke to your child about ‘stomp kicking’ a dog (you say it was a joke, but then you ask if kicking a dog is the right thing to do during an attack - which makes me wonder if you really were joking, or if your daughter would know this).

I also think it sounds a bit concerning that you were ‘utterly shaken’ by a Labrador running up to you and you admit you relayed the story very dramatically to your daughter. I would be surprised if your reactions to these events alone don’t lead your children to grow up being fearful of dogs.

I've had many more problems with small dogs than large dogs as owners seem to think that because they're small they don't need to train them.
So, as long as you include small dogs, yanbu.