Large dogs should be leads if their owners can’t call them off kids

[CustardyCreams]

Today, a large Labrador ran into my toddler while we had stopped in a green space for a drink whilst on our daily exercise. The owner was calling the dog and he had about 20m to get the dog back under control so I figured the best thing was to hold my son to keep him calm and still, but I didn’t pick him up because I thought the movement might make the dog bark or jump up at us and that could be frightening. But the dog ignored its owner, I tried to push the dog off, but it barged me and got to my son, licked his water bottle and the snuffled his face and started licking his face, before it ran off having seen another dog to go and play with (the owner was laughing and telling the other dog owner his dog would grab the tennis ball off him ‘if he wasn’t careful’).

Although this wasn’t an aggressive dog, if an animal taller than you comes running at you, panting, licks your face, it is disconcerting at the very least, and this was a stranger’s dog so I was very shocked that the owner wasn’t able to call it off us; most dog owners I know would never allow their dog to approach a very young child like that. The dog seemed wildly excited, and I do think in that case, on public pathways, the owner has a responsibility to control the animal when there are so many young children out of school.

AIBU to have asked the owner to consider keeping his large dog on a long lead, given that there a large number of small children out of school and it is frightening for very small children to be approached and licked?

If it is a small dog, or a well-behaved large dog, I’ve absolutely no objection and we love looking at the woof-woofs usually when we are out for a walk.

Also - AIBU to not trust any large stranger’s dog around my 1 year old, regardless of breed? I was always told by dog-loving friends that no dog is entirely safe with a small child.

The reason I’m feeling sensitive about this, is that when my 10 year old daughter returned to me (she had scampered off to play in a patch of trees while we had our drink) I asked if she had seen or heard me talking to the dog’s owner. She said no, but I explained (admittedly quite dramatically ) what happened and I said I felt bad because I had not expected the dog to lick my son and his cup, and I froze ( I should havE picked my son up or pushed my body in front of my son, but the dog simply wouldn’t be pushed away).

I then laughed and said maybe I needed my daughter to teach me some martial arts moves to defend us next time! My daughter then obliged me by demonstrating a stomp kick, and I said, “exactly, a stomp kick, that would be the right move!” It was jokey.

However we were being a bit loud and another mum about 10m away with two girls in rather beautiful party dresses, suddenly shouted over to me that I was being melodramatic and teaching children to stomp kick dogs was animal cruelty and passing on my fear of dogs to other people was unacceptable , teaching children to be afraid of dogs is wrong, and on and on.( In case it’s not obvious, I agree with her - I haven’t taught either of my kids to actually kick dogs, or to be afraid of dogs in general, but strangers’ dogs we always are wary of, and wait to be invited to pet them, and always do so gently by coming up alongside the dog first and not thrusting a hand at its muzzle. In exchange I expect owners won’t let their animals off the lead if they can’t control their playfulness around tiny children and call the dog to heel).

I apologised right away if her daughters had overheard, and said it was only a joke, my girls are old enough to understand that I’m not truly advocating stomp-kicking a Labrador ( in my house when we are stressed we use sometimes quite dark humour to get us through it, and I was utterly shaken by the dog running at my son. I’m not usually bothered by dogs at all, but this one was just so persistent, if it had decided to bite I don’t think I could have stopped it).

My daughter was very upset and furious at this lady yelling at me, and I was totally taken aback. I mean in reality if a dog DOES attack you, and freezing, turning away, hiding your hands etc don’t stop it, isn’t kicking it actually recommended? Be clear - I’m still not advocating kicking your average Labrador. But if ever my daughter is attacked by a dog, shouldn’t she have a strategy?

By the way - my daughter does do martial arts for self defence. She does not know it, but the reason is I had a friend who was Brutally raped in broad daylight aged 16, walking home from school, and I will never be complacent about giving my daughter the confidence to try and defend herself. This still doesn’t mean I am turning her into a crazy dog-kicking lunatic. Does it?

I’m sick of dogs of lead with or without covid. Just because ‘your dog is friendly’ doesn’t mean I’m friendly, nor do I want dog drool on my clothing.

Went out for a run this morning and I go through a large open space (I’m on the path) and this labradoodle off the lead starts trying to weave in my legs.... woman does nothing to stop this, just smiles at me?. Same run, woman has 2 small terriers, one having a shit the other not on a lead. She’s got the defecating dog on a long lead, she’s now blocking the entire footpath (it’s probably the width of one side of the road) dogs one side, she’s the other and the 2nd dog is just stood there, took no effort to move, or allow me to get past. Not sure if I was expected to hurdle the dog.

People are ultimately selfish. I have no problems with dogs, I like them. I just don’t want one near me.

All dogs without good recall should be on lead regardless of size, my dog certainly is.

I'm sick of the

"Oh he's just trying to say Hello."

"He's just being friendly."

"He doesn't bite."

"He'll calm down if your child stops screaming."

This last one was actually said to me whilst a labrador jumped up at my 3 year old, she was petrified.

I don't care if your dog is 'friendly'. Keep it on a lead or don't fucking have one.

@hayfeverhellish - I was trying to explain in my pp. There is a large park where I live where dogs have to be on leads, with a meadow off it, which is where dog owners have walked their off lead dogs for years. So locals know it is a 'known dog walking area'.

People have dogs, people have children - some people have both, some people are considerate, some people aren't.....

At no point have I said anything about people not being 'allowed' to walk anywhere. In fact, I've repeatedly said that both sides need to respect the fact that there are FAR more people in far less space at the moment and there will be conflicts. But wilfully putting yourself in the middle of a 'known dog walking' field with small children (when you could stay in the park where dogs are on leads) and then moaning about off lead dogs, is somewhat irritating, even to those who try to be considerate dog owners and not have their dogs off lead.

Peace and out!

My dog is a little Cavalier King Charles Spaniel who runs up to people then lies down and shows them her belly for a rub. But even so I know some people are fearful of dogs so I always put her on the lead when I approach other people (also to protect her as not all dogs are happy about being bounced up to by a little fluffy and nice but dim dog) . If you can't control your dog it really should be on a lead.

All dogs should be able to be recalled or put on their leads!Our Dalmatian is friendly and well trained ,and will come back when called .The park should be for everyone FFS ! I would not advocate kicking a dog though .it may turn on you unexpectedly .

As someone who spend years training gun dogs there is no excuse for a badly behaved dog or just plain untrained dog. Recall is a basic command.

I've always owned big dogs, dobermans, German shephards, all soft as dirt but no one else would know that.

I've have a Yorkshire terrier bite my shepherd and the owner just state well your dog can handle it!! Honestly I wanted nothing more than to give my dog the go ahead to shake it! But I didn't, not the dogs fault poor owner all the way.

On the other hand I've have young children run up to him (never on lead, never needed to would hault/return on command) and essentially man handle him, as I say fortunately well tempered but I always had a go at parents for the, 'well he isn't on a lead so he must be nice!' again poor logic, well trained doesn't necessarily mean happy to have his ears pulled.

But I do think you were wrong to say what you did to your daughter, while you don't know how a dog will react teaching your daughter that a fear reaction is always justified may lead to problems in the future. I have a 2 year old and are always ran up to, licked at the park, I keep a close eye on the dog and will always be next to my daughter but my daughter loves dogs as I taught her to so I don't push them away as such, always spoke excited about the doggies and how lovely they are but I do tell her off if whe goes to approach a strange dog, it's all about having control of the situation.

For your question regards to dog attacks, although rare, fighting back will escalate usually. Hopefully you'll never be in the situation :)

It should never be forgotten they are an animal, I trusted my old German shephard with my life but I wouldn't have left her alone with my daughter if she was still alive. Kids are unpredictable and everyone even a dog can have a bad day.

My elderly terrier is always on the lead. She does not like strange dogs. If they come within biting distance she will bite even if they 'only want to play'. I always warn that she isn't friendly and I pick her up if another dog approaches but I really shouldn't have to do this. Their owners should either have them on a lead or be able to call them back.

Yanbu to want to go for a walk without a dog running up to you.

Yabu for only being annoyed at the owners of large dogs and for referring to dogs as "woof woofs"

These threads make me so angry. I’m a dog trainer and I try so hard to get people not to allow their dogs to behave so badly and to keep them on a lead if they are not yet able to control them. The vast majority do exactly that.
The problem imo is clueless owners are allowed to buy(or rescue, that’s an oft used excuse for bad behaviour out and about I find) a dog/puppy from god knows where, get no instruction in how to get a well behaved pet and unleash it on the general public without any consideration or comeback whatsoever.
It equally makes me sad when people insist my well behaved dogs or those of my clients (once I’ve finished with them lol!) should be denied the chance of a bit of free running because of the behaviour of these idiots.
I NEVER allow my dogs to approach people or dogs without my express permission, when in early training they are prevented from that rude behaviour by a lead or training line. If people/dogs appear they are either called to heel and expected to walk past with me or dropped into a down stay.
The regularity of the shock people display seeing a properly trained dog tells me just how badly the general dog owning public are doing.

OP you are quite right to not trust any strange dog around your young child, regardless of breed. Any dog without good recall should be on a leash.

There is never a time where it is ok for a dog to approach a human without consent. The owner should have total control of their animal at all times. It doesn’t matter how friendly the dog might be.

Dogs should absolutely be under control and if not, they should be on their leads. I think it’s important to note that occasionally a very well-trained dog can just decide not to listen to their owner. Also when you have a puppy, you think you might have mastered something but then they regress and ‘forget’ (or choose to be bloody-minded and ignore you). I find in these situations dog owners will always be apologetic, rather than saying “don’t worry, she/he is friendly”, that’s the call of a dog owner that doesn’t give a shit.

Dogs should also be on leads in residential areas, busier sections of parks, narrow paths when hiking, around play equipment and definitely in car parks. Dogs should also be kept on leads if there are picnics happening. I say this as someone with a well trained who has excellent recall and excellent leave it of food. I still require her to be on a lead if anyone is having food nearby because sometimes dogs do unpredictable things. The easiest way to avoid problems, is to not create them. A few years ago, I was walking up to the top of a hill with my dog and stopped at the top for a sit down and to take in the scenery for a while. My dog lay down at my feet but she was on her lead the whole time. Another dog, off lead came up to us and tried to get my dog to play (she loves to play but is well trained to know she can’t play on the lead and I’d never let two dogs play on the side of a big, busy hill with people picnicking and sudden drops). The other dog ran off and stole some picnic from someone else sat at the top of the hill. They yelled to me that my dog had taken their picnic “but it was ok, he must be hungry”. I just responded with that it wasn’t my dog and mine was here on her lead. Dogs not being on their lead when they should gives the rest of us a bad name. It really pisses me off.

In addition, if you are in a reserve, even if it’s quiet and even if your dog is well controlled, if the reserve states to keep your dog on a lead, then keep your dog on a lead. It’s for the wildlife in the reserve and to minimise disturbance. Same goes for livestock.

As for talking to your daughter about stomping on the dog, yes you are being unreasonable. It’s important that your children know body language of a dog and when they are aggressive, preventive measures to stop them being hurt. However, you approached this in a dramatised way and the way you would protect yourself against a human is not necessarily the same way you would perhaps protect yourself against a dog. This is a conversation to have with your children in a calm and rational manner. I have been taught by my work to fend off a dog attack (due to the nature of our work) and I think more people should be aware of it.

I would have picked my child up in all honesty. But a dog who isn't trained shouldn't be off a lead. In fact, in our area there are not many places your dog can be off a lead now. Thankfully. My mums old dog had bad recall so under no circumstances was she off the lead. That's what a responsible pet owner would do.

@cologne4711 I have a Labrador. Until he was coming up to two he could be mad! Daft and goofy and silly and race around at top speed bum tucking. He was taught excellent recall for this reason. He is now the 'calm docile' dog you describe however he does still get the odd mad five minutes.

Again couldn't agree more OP sick to back teeth of selfish dog owners. In the past year I've had 8 similar experiences son with toddlers and some just me whilst I've been running - honestly starting to form the opinion that dog owners are selfish fucks. These have all happened at local country parks. One of them was in the family picnic area of a park where dogs are supposed to be on leads aren't allowed in the picnic area. It ate our picnic!! Greedy shit. Massive argument ensued where the owner so it wasn't her fault as the dog was going deaf!!!!!

@SpillTheTeaa wish it was like that here we’re semi rural and there's so many places you could walk your dog off lead that aren't family spaces.

People should train their dogs yes. I wish parents would train their children, because I am bloody fed up of the number who run straight up to my dog without permission, ignore their parents (assuming their parents even try to stop them), and have even been known to lash out or hit the dog with things. If my dog attacks them, it will be his fault, even though he has done nothing. Luckily my dog is better trained than most children.

If a dog - whether it's large or small cannot be re-called instantly with a simply command it should not be off lead.

I have two Labradors. If I had Pugs or Yorkshire terriers I'd train them the same way. It simply takes a bit of effort when they are puppies or come to you as a rescue.

It's unfair to say all dogs must be on lead all of the time. How is it meant to be adequately exercised or learn to to socialise if kept on lead all the time? Therein lies the problem. Unsocialised dogs and their equal owners.

Where I live dogs can be exercised off lead in any public space, signs instructing to keep dogs on leads are advisory. Check your local council.

in my house when we are stressed we use sometimes quite dark humour to get us through it Who uses dark humour with kids - really - that's seriously concerning. With regards dogs, all dogs without recall should be on leads regardless of their size. Your conversation about stomping on a dog (or any animal for that matter) was absolutely disgusting and then double checking if your DD should do this if attacked by a dog - wtaf? I appreciate you got a fright but you sound more unhinged than the bloody dog!

Quite right, BUT I’ve met far more angry, badly behaved small dogs than I have large dogs.

And FWIW, I would love it if people would keep their children away from my dog! He is very sweet and would never approach a child (he actively seeks to avoid them!) but SO many people just let their kids wander up to him without asking me if he is child friendly. Lucky he’s very fast so he can easily run away, but he has knocked over an approaching small child whilst running away in his haste to avoid being cornered, which got ME an earful from the parents

I have 3 dogs, all rescues. My little pug who used to be friendly to other dogs has become very reactive to other dogs because he got attacked by an off lead dog, so now he's scared. I am trying to train him, but despite him wearing a yellow vest and me with a High Viz asking people to keep their fucking dogs away, I still get idiots refusing to put their dogs on leads, which ends up with me doing the Argentinian tango to get away.
My big boy is old and grumpy and bares his teeth at rude dogs.

Yes dogs should be on leads if can’t be called back straightaway- I have two myself- I have had same issues with golden retrievers which was over excited/ hurled itself and my dogs- one of which tried to run off as was frightened- dog was totally out of control- we had to go home whilst owner was still trying to round it up.pissed me off- and another ‘friendly’ spaniel who jumped straight up at me and onto my v arthritic knees and it hurt so much i wanted to cry.again ‘ over friendly’ but no recall.
I’m sorry that there are so many oblivious dog owners who give us all a bad name

YANBU - we have two staffies, our youngest is only 6months and doesn't have perfect recall yet so in public busy places he is kept on a short lead and in empty fields/walk places he is on a long training lead so that I can still teach recall but if someone does appear I can also stop him running over to them.
Our older boy does have very good recall, and will heel if I tell him to, however, I still always put a lead on him walking past people or other dogs, just because even though his recall is good you never know how other dogs/people feel towards dogs and it could make someone nervous with him off the lead even though I know he wouldn't run over - they don't know that so I always have him on a lead around them. I also choose to walk him in quieter places so that he still gets a good amount of time to run off lead while being able to be put on the lead to pass people.

Owners like the one in the OP give dog owners a bad name, any dog that can't heel when told should be on a lead, then the fact they didn't even apologise to you after!