Large dogs should be leads if their owners can’t call them off kids

[CustardyCreams]

Today, a large Labrador ran into my toddler while we had stopped in a green space for a drink whilst on our daily exercise. The owner was calling the dog and he had about 20m to get the dog back under control so I figured the best thing was to hold my son to keep him calm and still, but I didn’t pick him up because I thought the movement might make the dog bark or jump up at us and that could be frightening. But the dog ignored its owner, I tried to push the dog off, but it barged me and got to my son, licked his water bottle and the snuffled his face and started licking his face, before it ran off having seen another dog to go and play with (the owner was laughing and telling the other dog owner his dog would grab the tennis ball off him ‘if he wasn’t careful’).

Although this wasn’t an aggressive dog, if an animal taller than you comes running at you, panting, licks your face, it is disconcerting at the very least, and this was a stranger’s dog so I was very shocked that the owner wasn’t able to call it off us; most dog owners I know would never allow their dog to approach a very young child like that. The dog seemed wildly excited, and I do think in that case, on public pathways, the owner has a responsibility to control the animal when there are so many young children out of school.

AIBU to have asked the owner to consider keeping his large dog on a long lead, given that there a large number of small children out of school and it is frightening for very small children to be approached and licked?

If it is a small dog, or a well-behaved large dog, I’ve absolutely no objection and we love looking at the woof-woofs usually when we are out for a walk.

Also - AIBU to not trust any large stranger’s dog around my 1 year old, regardless of breed? I was always told by dog-loving friends that no dog is entirely safe with a small child.

The reason I’m feeling sensitive about this, is that when my 10 year old daughter returned to me (she had scampered off to play in a patch of trees while we had our drink) I asked if she had seen or heard me talking to the dog’s owner. She said no, but I explained (admittedly quite dramatically ) what happened and I said I felt bad because I had not expected the dog to lick my son and his cup, and I froze ( I should havE picked my son up or pushed my body in front of my son, but the dog simply wouldn’t be pushed away).

I then laughed and said maybe I needed my daughter to teach me some martial arts moves to defend us next time! My daughter then obliged me by demonstrating a stomp kick, and I said, “exactly, a stomp kick, that would be the right move!” It was jokey.

However we were being a bit loud and another mum about 10m away with two girls in rather beautiful party dresses, suddenly shouted over to me that I was being melodramatic and teaching children to stomp kick dogs was animal cruelty and passing on my fear of dogs to other people was unacceptable , teaching children to be afraid of dogs is wrong, and on and on.( In case it’s not obvious, I agree with her - I haven’t taught either of my kids to actually kick dogs, or to be afraid of dogs in general, but strangers’ dogs we always are wary of, and wait to be invited to pet them, and always do so gently by coming up alongside the dog first and not thrusting a hand at its muzzle. In exchange I expect owners won’t let their animals off the lead if they can’t control their playfulness around tiny children and call the dog to heel).

I apologised right away if her daughters had overheard, and said it was only a joke, my girls are old enough to understand that I’m not truly advocating stomp-kicking a Labrador ( in my house when we are stressed we use sometimes quite dark humour to get us through it, and I was utterly shaken by the dog running at my son. I’m not usually bothered by dogs at all, but this one was just so persistent, if it had decided to bite I don’t think I could have stopped it).

My daughter was very upset and furious at this lady yelling at me, and I was totally taken aback. I mean in reality if a dog DOES attack you, and freezing, turning away, hiding your hands etc don’t stop it, isn’t kicking it actually recommended? Be clear - I’m still not advocating kicking your average Labrador. But if ever my daughter is attacked by a dog, shouldn’t she have a strategy?

By the way - my daughter does do martial arts for self defence. She does not know it, but the reason is I had a friend who was Brutally raped in broad daylight aged 16, walking home from school, and I will never be complacent about giving my daughter the confidence to try and defend herself. This still doesn’t mean I am turning her into a crazy dog-kicking lunatic. Does it?

@manchmallehrerin I don't mean pavements - and of COURSE I'm not saying people can't use the parks.

My pp was trying to be a bit tongue in cheek because these threads always get a bit out of hand. Where I live there is a large park, where dogs are not allowed off lead, and then beyond that, a 'meadow' which has always, unofficially, been where people walk their dogs. There are now so many families with small children in the 'dog walking' meadow, (even though they could easily be in the park, where dogs have to be on lead) but they make such a fuss about the dogs being off lead and in the space - and even if the dogs aren't doing anything! It gets a bit tedious, but as a responsible dog owner, I always recall my dog and keep her to heel around small children and heel because I know that not everyone appreciates her friendliness and she is big (golden retriever) so intimidating to small children.

It's really a question of mutual respect and at the moment, there are far more people in far less space -and we just have to be respectful of each other, no?

small children and FOOD that should read! Not heel twice.....

I think small dogs can actually be worse, they tend to be yappier and snappier. All dogs should be on leads, I think we should have dog parks like they do in America, dogs can be off lead to their hearts content but in a shared space they are on the lead.

In our local park people use their dogs being off lead an excuse to ignore their them shitting in the middle of the grass.

I watched a particularly bouncy lab puppy decimate someone's picnic at the weekend, the owners had absolutely zero control.

I say that as a dog owner, one small and one big.

I'm with you on this. My dogs are on lead almost all the time at the moment (unless I can see far enough that I know I'll be able to call them back before another dog/ person gets within "look, a friend, bye mum" distance). It is really annoying as a dog owner losing our usual empty walking spots while everyone's out and about, but everyone's in the same boat and we need to take responsibility and be considerate in public.

I have a big young male and a lab came over from the distance the other day to have a go. Mine was on a lead to stop him running off to play with everyone and anyone. It was touch and go whether this dog was going to leave mine be after a quick snarl and nip or really go for him. The owner stayed on the opposite side of the field shouting, I wasn't impressed!

Food/picnics should be done in non-dog areas if you want peace - easy. E.g. the beach near me doesn't allow dogs, people go there for picnics.

I have to ensure my dog is off lead because too many kids come up and put their hands in the face of the 'cute dog' and parents watch - if not on the lead my dog will run away, if on the lead she feels scared and will bark to warn the child.

I have a little dog and she is lovely but... she loves attention so will bolt for anyone she sees.
So she stays on a lead at all times - unless there is no-one around at all. As soon as I see anyone, she is called and put straight back on the lead.
All dog owners need to take responsibility for their dogs.
With what is going on and more people out locally, all dogs should remain on lead. Simple as that!

I think what bothers me most about this is that I have never had a dog owner apologise or even seem remotely bothered that their “friendly” dog has knocked my kid over. They never take any responsibility. I assume all the dog owners who are normal, nice people don’t let their dogs jump on people but it still really winds me up. Just say sorry!!!

I'm allergic to dogs, why should i be covered in a rash and wheeze because someone's dog wants to touch me? I shove them away with my foot if the owners don't listen to my warning.

Also @okiedokieme
Dogs should not approach other people, end of. My gripe is parents who allow their kids to chase my dog, hes been taught not to approach other people and dogs, he keeps to himself (and his ball) I swear he's autistic!

How tone deaf of you, I'm a mum to 2 autistic children, I'm thrilled to know you believe the stereotypes.

I fucking hate any off the lead dog and indulgent owners. My DS was terrified of dogs because of incidents when he was 2 /3. Including a puppy that was trying to bite him while owner had sauntered off around a corner and a dog that came running into our flat as we were just heading out

YANBU, OP!

I love animals although admittedly much more of a cat person. I am VERY wary of any dogs despite never being attacked/bitten. I just respect the fact that I am entering THEIR world when in their space.

I could feel my own heart racing as you were describing in your post how the dog approached your little one. Thank God it WAS a friendly dog! The owner definitely needs drop kicking! 😡

@alicejen

Food/picnics should be done in non-dog areas if you want peace - easy. E.g. the beach near me doesn't allow dogs, people go there for picnics.

I have to ensure my dog is off lead because too many kids come up and put their hands in the face of the 'cute dog' and parents watch - if not on the lead my dog will run away, if on the lead she feels scared and will bark to warn the child.

And if you don’t happen to live near a beach?

I’ll keep out of designated dog spaces, off-lead dogs need to keep out of picnic areas.

Yes my dog is absolutely useless with recall. Even the dog trainer gave up. She just finds life and people far too exciting to behave and prefers to act the part of a demented maniac if let loose and so she is on a lead at all times apart from when in a designated dog playground.

I know for a fact that she would run up to anyone, she would stick her nose in peoples picnic food (she would even take the food and run off if she could), she would lick people and children...she’s just far too exuberant and hot headed to be off lead.

I know that and that’s why she’s kept on a lead.

Kicking at an attacking dog risks losing your balance; so it's a very bad idea especially for a child. If the child fell over the dog might go for the neck or head, with possible fatal results.

In your shoes I would have hoisted the baby up in my arms.

I completely agree that all dogs should be controlled especially around children; and I have very often taught unknown children who approached wanting to pat my large friendly dogs, how to behave around strange dogs. Talk to the owner first; ask permission before touching the dog. Let it sniff your hand first. Stroke where the owner tells you the dog likes to be stroked.

I was brought up with dogs and my mother ran a boarding kennel. I can tell you all dogs have the potential to be aggressive, whatever their owners think. Under the right circumstances they will be aggresive, even if they have never shown any aggression before. That is why they should never be permitted to run up to children in public places and children should not pet a stranger's dog. It is absolutely the responsibility of the dog owner to ensure this. No excuse. A dog should be completely under control in a public place and it is time that dog owners ensured this. YANBU and this is becoming a huge problem.

*@panicmode1

1. If your children are scared of dogs, please don't walk them in known dog walking areas and then scream blue murder when one has the audacity to walk past you, even if it's not doing anything to you/your child/your possessions/your food*.

Dogs do not get the monopoly on green areas. Every single outdoor place here has dogs. Do children just have to stay at home??

It's not just large dogs. Dachshunds are the dogs most likely to bite.

If your dog isn't properly trained to return when called, it needs to be on a lead. All the time.

My dog goes on the lead as soon as I spot children in the area. He has good recall but dogs will be dogs and children will be children.

I should add that he walks to heel and is small and unfrisky, he ignores most people, but is occasionally friendly if an adult human shows a liking for him. He hates unpredictable children, as they scare him, hence he's straight on a short lead whenever they are anywhere near

Totally agree op!

For 3 consecutive days in lockdown a dog not on a lead ran to my daughter and jumped on her and now I can't get her to leave the house. It's really sad, she would always come for for a walk or on her bike but she won't now and it's purely due to these dog owners.

One dog was a doberman, surely that should be on a lead, the owner was saying, it's ok, she's soft!

The other dog ran at us right across a field, I asked the owner to call her dog back but it never worked and they started shouting at me!

Everywhere I go there are dogs, I honestly don't know where I can go out with my daughter any more! I understand dogs need to go out but they should be on leads.

I don't know how to get my daughter past this, bribery isn't working at all!

Dogs have to learn/be trained. Little dogs can give nasty nips etc too, at least you can see the big dogs coming.
If the dog doesn't come to heel then you tell the dog to sit or leave in a stern voice.
You also need to turn your back to the animal and they are less likely to jump up etc.
Wouldn't recommend the last suggestion with a guard dog though.

All dogs should be on leads unless their recall and obedience is 100%.

What is a 'known dog walking area'? I get there are specific dog fields etc and I and my terrified kids will stay out of them, but footpaths, riverbanks, Country parks etc should be safe and happy places. A dog can be on an extendable lead and have a good walk, but still under control but an off lead dog, no matter what it's size or friendliness or indifference will ruin the trip for us. And yes I know its not ideal and yes I am trying to help them not be so scared but until that magic occurs, it really would improve their lives quire a lot if I could confidently reassure them a dog will not be able to approach them.

Where I live there is a park with a fairly large playing field. Then across the road is a slightly larger field which is the unofficial dog walking /playing field.
We have only walked across this field a few times and I'm aware I can't complain if dogs approach us.
In the park though it's a different matter. Dogs leaping about on the field, on the path, even in the playground at times (not at the moment). I don't know if these dogs have good recall or not because I never hear the owner say anything.
My eldest is a teenager now and still terrified of dogs after she was knocked over by one when she was little. She even gets nervous when they start barking (I don't walk across the dog walking field with her) and so many people think it's funny.
Don't get me wrong. I love dogs, grew up with them but I really don't like irresponsible dog owners.
Why use the park which is about the only place children can go when if you walk 100 paces you can use the field?
I must admit though when I read your OP I thought your daughter was teaching you moves to use on the owner, not the dog.

This is my thread - we had a bad experience at the weekend.

We were having a picnic, toddler in my lap, DD sat next to me. Dog approached quietly and I only spotted it 2m away. I knew I didn't have time to stand up and collect up kids. DH put himself between me and the dog and used his leg to make it clear it couldn't approach us. It walked round, DH followed and then it tried to head back to DD. He put out his leg to discourage it again. It happened quickly and he was flailing around.

Owner walks up behind us, having said nothing and starts moaning about DH trying to kick the dog. He wasn't but I can see from the angle they were at they might have thought so. I couldn't believe they had been so close, had seen the situation and hasn't even tried to call three dog off. Hopefully they will have learnt to not let their dogs approach sitting down toddlers from now on!

Any dog with no recall and around others should be on a lead. As an aside, when I was a child I had my left ear almost torn off by a smaller breed and required surgery. I've always had giant breeds (st bernards, Newfs etc) and never had a problem with aggression from them. That's why I wouldn't just limit it to "big dogs"